H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build
09-12-2006, 09:32 AM
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H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build
Continuing from Part 3... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1652135
I decided to post this part in the drag racing forum because its now more about the swap, the H2D, and the car overall.
While the engine was getting built, a custom 5pt chromoly roll bar was installed:
The stock D16 engine is pulled from the engine bay. Misc items are removed and the engine bay is cleaned up and ready for the new motor:
An EK wiring harness is modified for the H22 engine and installed:
The D16 transmission is removed from its original motor. An ACT throw out bearing is greased and put on the transmision main shaft:
The motor is then pulled from the engine stand and ready for the drivetrain components:
Bisimoto's new H2D adapter kit allows for a D-series transmision to be bolted to a H-series engine. OEM style axles, mounts, and shift linkage are used with this kit. The lighter D-series transmission and clutch kit is another advantage. The kit comes with this custom offset aluminum flywheel. Thread locker is applied to the OEM flywheel bolts and they are torued down:
The ACT clutch kit is installed and torqued down. OEM dowel pins are place into the motor. Bisimoto's H2D adapter plate is then bolted to the block:
Due to the smaller size of the D16 transmission, the H22 block must be ground down so the driveshaft CV housing will fit into the transmission:
After grinding enough material away, the driveshaft fits into the transmision and spins freely:
The D16 transmission bolts are torqued down and the swap is ready to be put in the car:
When lining the motor up in the engine bay, we notice the timing belt was hitting the shock tower:
We decide to cut the shock tower, weld in two metal plates, modify the upper control arm, and bolt everything back up:
A hole is drilled in the throw out bearing lever, a simple bracket is made, and the pull style slave cylinder is mounted up:
Although the stock passanger side and rear mount are used, the driver's side mount needs to be fabricated:
In order to fit between the timing gear and frame rail, a custom crank pulley is required. Bisimoto Engineering came through for us and sent one out right away:
When looking from the top, it is clear the alternator needs to be mounted lower on the engine:
Using a D-series alternator and alternator bracket along with a simple adapter plate, the alternator is mounted up and belt tightened:
Mid swap picture:
Front on view:
Everything in and done:
Due to the orientation of the motor, the hood needed to be spaced up in the back to clear the oil cap:
THE START UP VIDEO:
http://www.rndauto.com/cars/ranta/engine/start.MOV
The entire build story: http://www.rndauto.com/rantabuild.htm
Modified by ranta18 at 5:34 PM 10/3/2006
I decided to post this part in the drag racing forum because its now more about the swap, the H2D, and the car overall.
While the engine was getting built, a custom 5pt chromoly roll bar was installed:
The stock D16 engine is pulled from the engine bay. Misc items are removed and the engine bay is cleaned up and ready for the new motor:
An EK wiring harness is modified for the H22 engine and installed:
The D16 transmission is removed from its original motor. An ACT throw out bearing is greased and put on the transmision main shaft:
The motor is then pulled from the engine stand and ready for the drivetrain components:
Bisimoto's new H2D adapter kit allows for a D-series transmision to be bolted to a H-series engine. OEM style axles, mounts, and shift linkage are used with this kit. The lighter D-series transmission and clutch kit is another advantage. The kit comes with this custom offset aluminum flywheel. Thread locker is applied to the OEM flywheel bolts and they are torued down:
The ACT clutch kit is installed and torqued down. OEM dowel pins are place into the motor. Bisimoto's H2D adapter plate is then bolted to the block:
Due to the smaller size of the D16 transmission, the H22 block must be ground down so the driveshaft CV housing will fit into the transmission:
After grinding enough material away, the driveshaft fits into the transmision and spins freely:
The D16 transmission bolts are torqued down and the swap is ready to be put in the car:
When lining the motor up in the engine bay, we notice the timing belt was hitting the shock tower:
We decide to cut the shock tower, weld in two metal plates, modify the upper control arm, and bolt everything back up:
A hole is drilled in the throw out bearing lever, a simple bracket is made, and the pull style slave cylinder is mounted up:
Although the stock passanger side and rear mount are used, the driver's side mount needs to be fabricated:
In order to fit between the timing gear and frame rail, a custom crank pulley is required. Bisimoto Engineering came through for us and sent one out right away:
When looking from the top, it is clear the alternator needs to be mounted lower on the engine:
Using a D-series alternator and alternator bracket along with a simple adapter plate, the alternator is mounted up and belt tightened:
Mid swap picture:
Front on view:
Everything in and done:
Due to the orientation of the motor, the hood needed to be spaced up in the back to clear the oil cap:
THE START UP VIDEO:
http://www.rndauto.com/cars/ranta/engine/start.MOV
The entire build story: http://www.rndauto.com/rantabuild.htm
Modified by ranta18 at 5:34 PM 10/3/2006
09-12-2006, 12:00 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (HybridHatch88)
1. D tranny $ < H tranny $ < B tranny $
2. D tranny lbs < B tranny lbs < H tranny lbs
3. D tranny supply > H tranny supply > B tranny supply
4. No mount kit needed (custom driver's side mount is needed)
5. No custom or other axles needed
6. No other shift linkage or shifter cables needed
More info... http://www.bisimoto.com/wst_page10.html
2. D tranny lbs < B tranny lbs < H tranny lbs
3. D tranny supply > H tranny supply > B tranny supply
4. No mount kit needed (custom driver's side mount is needed)
5. No custom or other axles needed
6. No other shift linkage or shifter cables needed
More info... http://www.bisimoto.com/wst_page10.html
09-12-2006, 12:02 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (ranta18)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ranta18 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. D tranny $ < H tranny $ < B tranny $
2. D tranny lbs < B tranny lbs < H tranny lbs
3. D tranny supply > H tranny supply > B tranny supply
4. No mount kit needed (custom driver's side mount is needed)
5. No custom or other axles needed
6. No other shift linkage or shifter cables needed
More info... http://www.bisimoto.com/wst_page10.html
</TD></TR></TABLE>
B series and H series tranny's weigh within one pound of each other. How much does the D tranny weigh?
2. D tranny lbs < B tranny lbs < H tranny lbs
3. D tranny supply > H tranny supply > B tranny supply
4. No mount kit needed (custom driver's side mount is needed)
5. No custom or other axles needed
6. No other shift linkage or shifter cables needed
More info... http://www.bisimoto.com/wst_page10.html
</TD></TR></TABLE>
B series and H series tranny's weigh within one pound of each other. How much does the D tranny weigh?
09-12-2006, 12:08 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (ranta18)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ranta18 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. D tranny $ < H tranny $ < B tranny $
2. D tranny lbs < B tranny lbs < H tranny lbs
3. D tranny supply > H tranny supply > B tranny supply
4. No mount kit needed (custom driver's side mount is needed)
5. No custom or other axles needed
6. No other shift linkage or shifter cables needed
More info... http://www.bisimoto.com/wst_page10.html
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow. Sounds like a no brainer to me
Looks great.
2. D tranny lbs < B tranny lbs < H tranny lbs
3. D tranny supply > H tranny supply > B tranny supply
4. No mount kit needed (custom driver's side mount is needed)
5. No custom or other axles needed
6. No other shift linkage or shifter cables needed
More info... http://www.bisimoto.com/wst_page10.html
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow. Sounds like a no brainer to me
Looks great.
09-12-2006, 12:38 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (skunked)
Seems that the D tranny is 70 lbs.
Just a heads up to everyone else... I don't want this to get into a H2D vs H2B thread. We can create a new thread for that. This is just to document the car build.
I know you weren't trying to start anything skunked
Part 4 of the build started last Thursday night. We'll see if I can get it all done and running in 8 days total while working 7-4 M-F.
Just a heads up to everyone else... I don't want this to get into a H2D vs H2B thread. We can create a new thread for that. This is just to document the car build.
I know you weren't trying to start anything skunked
Part 4 of the build started last Thursday night. We'll see if I can get it all done and running in 8 days total while working 7-4 M-F.
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09-12-2006, 12:58 PM
#8
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (ranta18)
see you are running unequal axles, you see any problem with suspenison or torque steer?
09-12-2006, 01:23 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> see you are running unequal axles, you see any problem with suspenison or torque steer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i was wondering the same thing.anybody figured out a way to use the ZC intermediate shaft setup on this H2D kit?do that and it'd be killer.
Chris
i was wondering the same thing.anybody figured out a way to use the ZC intermediate shaft setup on this H2D kit?do that and it'd be killer.
Chris
09-12-2006, 01:26 PM
#11
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (TeamNextGenChris)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamNextGenChris »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i was wondering the same thing.anybody figured out a way to use the ZC intermediate shaft setup on this H2D kit?do that and it'd be killer.
Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was thinking that when I made my post, but you would have to make a mount for it.
Anyone know the cost of the kit?
i was wondering the same thing.anybody figured out a way to use the ZC intermediate shaft setup on this H2D kit?do that and it'd be killer.
Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was thinking that when I made my post, but you would have to make a mount for it.
Anyone know the cost of the kit?
09-12-2006, 01:35 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Turbogixxer)
Wow that's crazy. I had no idea there was an H2D kit.
How did you modify the upper control arm? Were you able to maintain the original suspension geometry?
Modifying the shock tower like that would make me uncomfortable. But then again, I'm not much of a fabricator.
Keep up the good work!
How did you modify the upper control arm? Were you able to maintain the original suspension geometry?
Modifying the shock tower like that would make me uncomfortable. But then again, I'm not much of a fabricator.
Keep up the good work!
09-12-2006, 01:41 PM
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Im not too fond of the whole cutting-the-shock-tower to make it fit...
Also, is the D-series tranny any weaker than H- or B-series trannies? Ive always thought the latter were stronger.
All in all, good stuff man. Looks like a good amount of work.
Also, is the D-series tranny any weaker than H- or B-series trannies? Ive always thought the latter were stronger.
All in all, good stuff man. Looks like a good amount of work.
09-12-2006, 02:07 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (ranta18)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ranta18 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Seems that the D tranny is 70 lbs.
Just a heads up to everyone else... I don't want this to get into a H2D vs H2B thread. We can create a new thread for that. This is just to document the car build.
I know you weren't trying to start anything skunked
Part 4 of the build started last Thursday night. We'll see if I can get it all done and running in 8 days total while working 7-4 M-F.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not going there
So the D tranny is roughly 10lbs lighter.
Just a heads up to everyone else... I don't want this to get into a H2D vs H2B thread. We can create a new thread for that. This is just to document the car build.
I know you weren't trying to start anything skunked
Part 4 of the build started last Thursday night. We'll see if I can get it all done and running in 8 days total while working 7-4 M-F.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not going there
So the D tranny is roughly 10lbs lighter.
09-12-2006, 02:18 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Turbogixxer)
I wish you the best, Mike, with your project: you will experience success!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> see you are running unequal axles, you see any problem with suspenison or torque steer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have raced with unequal axles for over 13 years...no challenged with Torque steer. Even the high powered dodge neon teams run unequal axles lengths.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nerdsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not too fond of the whole cutting-the-shock-tower to make it fit...
Also, is the D-series tranny any weaker than H- or B-series trannies? Ive always thought the latter were stronger. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The towers are not a problem on EFs, EG, or EEs. In addition, F-series engines clear EK towers as well.
In regard to the B vs D transmissions, my experience has been to the contrary. I ran stock D16 trans for years with over 320whp. Only after 340+whp did I experience 2nd gear synchro issues. My b-series all motor drag peers see gear failure at approximately 240whp+, and usually upgrade to Liberty, quaife, or Houseman gearing (trust me, they do...but will never tell you!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow that's crazy. I had no idea there was an H2D kit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I know that I do not frequent H-T, but my H/F2d kit was pioneered in 2002, and I have run it professionally since then. I had the intention of only using it for myself, but demand led me to make it available commercially. I have many well engineered kits on it way very soon: other combos, and kits that can solve many of the driveline/engine/clearance problems that currently exist with other kits out there.
This kit offers many advantages that Mike has mentioned, and more. I used the same engineering and meticulous nature that are employed in my builds to design this kit. I am currently sold out, but should have more in 3 business days. PM for further details.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> see you are running unequal axles, you see any problem with suspenison or torque steer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have raced with unequal axles for over 13 years...no challenged with Torque steer. Even the high powered dodge neon teams run unequal axles lengths.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nerdsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not too fond of the whole cutting-the-shock-tower to make it fit...
Also, is the D-series tranny any weaker than H- or B-series trannies? Ive always thought the latter were stronger. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The towers are not a problem on EFs, EG, or EEs. In addition, F-series engines clear EK towers as well.
In regard to the B vs D transmissions, my experience has been to the contrary. I ran stock D16 trans for years with over 320whp. Only after 340+whp did I experience 2nd gear synchro issues. My b-series all motor drag peers see gear failure at approximately 240whp+, and usually upgrade to Liberty, quaife, or Houseman gearing (trust me, they do...but will never tell you!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow that's crazy. I had no idea there was an H2D kit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I know that I do not frequent H-T, but my H/F2d kit was pioneered in 2002, and I have run it professionally since then. I had the intention of only using it for myself, but demand led me to make it available commercially. I have many well engineered kits on it way very soon: other combos, and kits that can solve many of the driveline/engine/clearance problems that currently exist with other kits out there.
This kit offers many advantages that Mike has mentioned, and more. I used the same engineering and meticulous nature that are employed in my builds to design this kit. I am currently sold out, but should have more in 3 business days. PM for further details.
09-12-2006, 02:28 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (skunked)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So the D tranny is roughly 10lbs lighter.</TD></TR></TABLE>
...roughly; more like 17lbs lighter trans-to-trans, not counting the flywheel, clutch, and axle comparator weights.
So the D tranny is roughly 10lbs lighter.</TD></TR></TABLE>
...roughly; more like 17lbs lighter trans-to-trans, not counting the flywheel, clutch, and axle comparator weights.
09-12-2006, 02:33 PM
#17
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Bisimoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have raced with unequal axles for over 13 years...no challenged with Torque steer. Even the high powered dodge neon teams run unequal axles lengths.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would imagine two different pivot points would create a bind. Any insight?
I am asking out of curious
I would imagine two different pivot points would create a bind. Any insight?
I am asking out of curious
09-12-2006, 02:37 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (R.S.AKIMOTO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R.S.AKIMOTO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow...thats alot of work...</TD></TR></TABLE>
seriously...I didn't know it required so much hacking of the back of the block! hope the advantages of doing this out weight all the custom work in the long run
seriously...I didn't know it required so much hacking of the back of the block! hope the advantages of doing this out weight all the custom work in the long run
09-12-2006, 02:53 PM
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would imagine two different pivot points would create a bind. Any insight?
I am asking out of curious</TD></TR></TABLE>
I do not know how else to share this with you...our factory cars come with unequal lengths, and I (many others as well) drag, street and road race with them.
"Binding" has not been an issue....back to your post, Mike.
I would imagine two different pivot points would create a bind. Any insight?
I am asking out of curious</TD></TR></TABLE>
I do not know how else to share this with you...our factory cars come with unequal lengths, and I (many others as well) drag, street and road race with them.
"Binding" has not been an issue....back to your post, Mike.
09-12-2006, 02:55 PM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Bisimoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I do not know how else to share this with you...our factory cars come with unequal lengths, and I (many others as well) drag, street and road race with them.
"Binding" has not been an issue....back to your post, Mike. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Cool coo, thank you
Back to the thread
I do not know how else to share this with you...our factory cars come with unequal lengths, and I (many others as well) drag, street and road race with them.
"Binding" has not been an issue....back to your post, Mike.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Cool coo, thank you
Back to the thread
09-12-2006, 03:04 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (Bisimoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In regard to the B vs D transmissions, my experience has been to the contrary. I ran stock D16 trans for years with over 320whp. Only after 340+whp did I experience 2nd gear synchro issues. My b-series all motor drag peers see gear failure at approximately 240whp+, and usually upgrade to Liberty, quaife, or Houseman gearing (trust me, they do...but will never tell you!)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Gear failure at 240whp on a B series????
In regard to the B vs D transmissions, my experience has been to the contrary. I ran stock D16 trans for years with over 320whp. Only after 340+whp did I experience 2nd gear synchro issues. My b-series all motor drag peers see gear failure at approximately 240whp+, and usually upgrade to Liberty, quaife, or Houseman gearing (trust me, they do...but will never tell you!)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Gear failure at 240whp on a B series????
09-12-2006, 04:42 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Gear failure at 240whp on a B series???? </TD></TR></TABLE>
shocker ?
Gear failure at 240whp on a B series????
</TD></TR></TABLE>shocker ?
09-12-2006, 07:38 PM
#25
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Re: H2D Install / Part 4 - ranta18's H22 All-Motor Build (dturbocivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
shocker ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, actually. I'd say that 90% of B series cars i work on are a hair over 240hp and i don't think i've ever seen a gear problem below 500ish hp. I really find it hard to believe that D series gears are stronger than B series gears....
shocker ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, actually. I'd say that 90% of B series cars i work on are a hair over 240hp and i don't think i've ever seen a gear problem below 500ish hp. I really find it hard to believe that D series gears are stronger than B series gears....