Volumetric Proficiency by Combustion Contraption... 85x89 Build - Honda-Tech

Combustion Contraption · 09-08-2006, 05:29 PM

I decided to retire the 1834cc setup a few months ago and concentrate on a new build over the summer. I contemplated doing a B20VTEC with a stock B20 block but I wanted to try something else. The plan was this: 85 x 89 Benson sleeved B block. That would come out to 2020cc’s and give me some displacement to work with. There are 3 area’s of efficiency to address on an internal combustion engine. Mechanical, Thermal, and Volumetric. We’ll address mechanical efficiency first.

Mechanical Efficiency

First order of business was dropping the block off at Laskey Racing. Earl is a great guy, fun to talk to, and always easy to get ahold of. The same cant be said of everyone in this industry. The B18B1 block was sleeved to 85mm by Bensons machine. Upon receiving the block back from Earl, i promptly bolted it up to the trusty engine stand.

I chose CP pistons for this build because I know numerous people getting great results with them, and I know a couple little tricks they use during their design/machining phase that I like. All this little stuff adds up. Proper ring end gap clearance, piston to wall clearance, and ring clocking are essential during piston install to ensure max. cylinder wall seal, and power output. Triple check everything!

Eagle rods were next on the list. This was a semi budget build, had I wanted to spend a ton of money for a part that wouldn’t see the abuse it was designed to take, I probably would have bought a set of pauters of carrillo’s. As it is, im happy that I made the decision I did.

And the entire assembly…

The crank I used was not one from the 1834cc so I had to check it for run out, to make sure everything was hunky dorey. It was. At this time I measured main and rod bearing journals to begine my calculations I would use for bearing clearances. I also took the time to polish the journals before making calculations.

For the main bearings, I wanted to have the clearances in the middle of what Honda recommends, to provide a balance between longevity and adequate lubrication for the RPM this motor was going to turn. I chose the K20A bearings because of their anti friction coating. If your thinking “you should have just bought some ACL’s” , well I could have, but then I wouldn’t have been able to dial in the clearances like I wanted with the Honda bearings. I aimed for .0015 to .0017 for the mains.

Volumetric Efficiency

Your cylinder head IS your engine. Short of your camshaft, nothing affects an engines performance quite like a properly performing cylinder head. As your head goes, so does your performance. Any shortcut should NOT be taken here. I could spend an entire thread detailing what I did to the cylinder head, and maybe I will, but not in this one. 

After I took the head off the 1834cc motor, I cleaned it, and inspected for anything unusual. Everything checked out fine. The head was previously a stock GSR casting with a portflow valve job. I spent some time in the garage with a die grinder and some tools did a little port work. I know the flow numbers, but sorry, I have to have SOME secrets.

This is how the head looked when I brought him home, ready to start grinding!

This is how it looked after a little bit of time with mr. carbide and mr. cartridge roll.

The valvetrain consists of: stock guides, Omnipower Dual Valve Springs, Omnipower Titanium Retainers, and Omnipower flat faced Valves. I used Buddy Club Cam gears with Skunk2 Pro1’s actuating the valves. I might be testing some other cams at a later date. I tested the Omnipower springs and came up with 50 pounds on the seat at an installed height of 1.320 and 180lbs. at .500”. The PRO1 cam I run checks in at .496 on the intake, so it was relevant to check spring pressure up to .500”. I have about .170” margin of error until coil bind. That’s plenty.

Feeding the P72 casting is a set of TWM individual throttle bodies. I matched them to the cylinder head as well to ensure an optimum flow path for my incoming charge. RC 310cc injectors were used for this build. We’ll see if they provide sufficient fueling requirements.

Spent exhaust gasses exit through a RAGE 4-2-1 header. Great buy for the money if you ask me.

Thermal Efficiency

40% of the heat generated during the combustion process is transferred to the coolant and oil in your engine instead of exerting energy utop the piston crown to produce more power. The cooler you can keep the operating environment, the more thermally efficient your engine becomes. This doesn’t add a ton of horsepower, but every last bit helps, and it helps keep your engine alive.

I don’t run coolant. I live in southern California. We don’t get snow. I don’t need an anti freezing additive. I run distilled water, with some RedLine Water Wetter to help aid the process. It does contain anti rust inhibitors just in case my distilled water was a bad batch from the water factory and slipped past Q.C. with some minerals still remaining.

Note: Water Wetter is not a replacement for coolant in the sense that it needs to be changed more frequently. While it does contain rust inhibitors, their life expectancy significantly shorter than those in standard coolant.

Mating the Individual throttles to the cylinder head is a Hondata Thermal Intake Gasket. This helps keep cylinder head temps down, which in turn keeps incoming air temps down which in term produces more power. Repeat after me. Every little bit helps.

Conclusion: While the motor is done and assembled it has not been installed in the car and fired up yet.. I will update this thread or create another with initial start up and break in procedure along with a couple tricks for extra power and some interesting testing I have planned for the dyno session. Thanks for reading. Comments/suggestions/questions welcome.

Combustion Contraption · 09-08-2006, 05:37 PM

A few more people i wanted to thank real quick...

Steve @ BPE Racing Heads
Paul @ BPE Racing Heads
Steve @ Omnipower
Earl @ Laskey Racing

Professor15 · 09-08-2006, 05:47 PM

Looks like a very promising build...keep it up.

97L-esVeeTeg · 09-08-2006, 05:55 PM

I applaud your attention to detail...very nice sir

mtber · 09-08-2006, 06:12 PM

Looks good, what are you going to use to tune it ?

Combustion Contraption · 09-08-2006, 06:14 PM

I already have Hondata S200 from the old setup, but im looking into something with an Alpha-N capability.

clean rice · 09-08-2006, 06:29 PM

Looks promising

smokey2.0 · 09-08-2006, 06:33 PM

how much WW will you use, in your cooling system? i use it in my crx(eg radiator), but i'm not 100% sure if i'm adding the right amount! good luck with your project

Combustion Contraption · 09-08-2006, 06:36 PM

I generally use about half the bottle, even though thats way over the amount that redline tells you to use per ratio of water. No negative effects so far.

smokey2.0 · 09-08-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Combustion Contraption

I generally use about half the bottle, even though thats way over the amount that redline tells you to use per ratio of water. No negative effects so far.

thankx, i usually put way less than that! next time i'll use a little more! thankx!

Combustion Contraption · 09-08-2006, 07:11 PM

No problem.

mike_belben@yahoo.com · 09-08-2006, 07:15 PM

a drop of liquid handsoap serves the same purpose as water wetter, relieves surface tension between the boundary layer of fluid and the material it is cooling.

nice work. in the future i think you can do a little more edge removal on the chamber where the pockets were cut.. the coanda effect makes me feel that its important to have a valveseat that flows from port to chamber smoothly throughout.

if possible, doing your own valvejobs will really open up a whole world of new things for you. keep at it!

Combustion Contraption · 09-08-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_belben@yahoo.com

a drop of liquid handsoap serves the same purpose as water wetter, relieves surface tension between the boundary layer of fluid and the material it is cooling.

hearsay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_belben@yahoo.com

nice work. in the future i think you can do a little more edge removal on the chamber where the pockets were cut.. the coanda effect makes me feel that its important to have a valveseat that flows from port to chamber smoothly throughout.

i could of spent a bit more time on this, but when i ported the head i was porting cylinder heads every day and i got a bit tired of it to be honest, my head is very lightly worked.

mike_belben@yahoo.com · 09-08-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Combustion Contraption

hearsay.

actually youre right! that is hearsay and i cant prove it. now i wonder if i should even believe it.

i think i remember reading a fluid dynamics book about a year ago and thinking 'oh yeah the handsoap thing makes sense' but its a vague memory at best.

(im sick of grinding heads too. a vw 20 valve just came in and as soon as i saw it i thought eff this.. i need a new job!)

91SiZ6 · 09-08-2006, 08:16 PM

Way cool.

ALLMOTOR18 · 09-08-2006, 08:27 PM

Nice build.. Let us know how much power it makes...

sheepey · 09-08-2006, 10:20 PM

Good work Steve! Nice pictures and explinations. Let me know when dyno day comes ( mine is within a week)

Combustion Contraption · 09-09-2006, 12:11 AM

Thanks man. Mine wont be for a bit, im finally gonna get around to that trans upgrade.

Runnerdown · 09-09-2006, 06:11 AM

Nice build! With that displacement, pro1 cams and itbs this will be a blast to drive for sure.

GSRCRXsi · 09-09-2006, 06:23 AM

what is your compression?

dinko · 09-09-2006, 07:22 AM

I've been hearing this K-Series bearing thing...but haven't really read up on it. Whats the procedure u went thru to get the bearing sizes u wanted?

09-08-2006, 05:29 PM	#1
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,534	Volumetric Proficiency by Combustion Contraption... 85x89 Build I decided to retire the 1834cc setup a few months ago and concentrate on a new build over the summer. I contemplated doing a B20VTEC with a stock B20 block but I wanted to try something else. The plan was this: 85 x 89 Benson sleeved B block. That would come out to 2020cc’s and give me some displacement to work with. There are 3 area’s of efficiency to address on an internal combustion engine. Mechanical, Thermal, and Volumetric. We’ll address mechanical efficiency first. Mechanical Efficiency First order of business was dropping the block off at Laskey Racing. Earl is a great guy, fun to talk to, and always easy to get ahold of. The same cant be said of everyone in this industry. The B18B1 block was sleeved to 85mm by Bensons machine. Upon receiving the block back from Earl, i promptly bolted it up to the trusty engine stand. I chose CP pistons for this build because I know numerous people getting great results with them, and I know a couple little tricks they use during their design/machining phase that I like. All this little stuff adds up. Proper ring end gap clearance, piston to wall clearance, and ring clocking are essential during piston install to ensure max. cylinder wall seal, and power output. Triple check everything! Eagle rods were next on the list. This was a semi budget build, had I wanted to spend a ton of money for a part that wouldn’t see the abuse it was designed to take, I probably would have bought a set of pauters of carrillo’s. As it is, im happy that I made the decision I did. And the entire assembly… The crank I used was not one from the 1834cc so I had to check it for run out, to make sure everything was hunky dorey. It was. At this time I measured main and rod bearing journals to begine my calculations I would use for bearing clearances. I also took the time to polish the journals before making calculations. For the main bearings, I wanted to have the clearances in the middle of what Honda recommends, to provide a balance between longevity and adequate lubrication for the RPM this motor was going to turn. I chose the K20A bearings because of their anti friction coating. If your thinking “you should have just bought some ACL’s” , well I could have, but then I wouldn’t have been able to dial in the clearances like I wanted with the Honda bearings. I aimed for .0015 to .0017 for the mains. Volumetric Efficiency Your cylinder head IS your engine. Short of your camshaft, nothing affects an engines performance quite like a properly performing cylinder head. As your head goes, so does your performance. Any shortcut should NOT be taken here. I could spend an entire thread detailing what I did to the cylinder head, and maybe I will, but not in this one.  After I took the head off the 1834cc motor, I cleaned it, and inspected for anything unusual. Everything checked out fine. The head was previously a stock GSR casting with a portflow valve job. I spent some time in the garage with a die grinder and some tools did a little port work. I know the flow numbers, but sorry, I have to have SOME secrets. This is how the head looked when I brought him home, ready to start grinding! This is how it looked after a little bit of time with mr. carbide and mr. cartridge roll. The valvetrain consists of: stock guides, Omnipower Dual Valve Springs, Omnipower Titanium Retainers, and Omnipower flat faced Valves. I used Buddy Club Cam gears with Skunk2 Pro1’s actuating the valves. I might be testing some other cams at a later date. I tested the Omnipower springs and came up with 50 pounds on the seat at an installed height of 1.320 and 180lbs. at .500”. The PRO1 cam I run checks in at .496 on the intake, so it was relevant to check spring pressure up to .500”. I have about .170” margin of error until coil bind. That’s plenty. Feeding the P72 casting is a set of TWM individual throttle bodies. I matched them to the cylinder head as well to ensure an optimum flow path for my incoming charge. RC 310cc injectors were used for this build. We’ll see if they provide sufficient fueling requirements. Spent exhaust gasses exit through a RAGE 4-2-1 header. Great buy for the money if you ask me. Thermal Efficiency 40% of the heat generated during the combustion process is transferred to the coolant and oil in your engine instead of exerting energy utop the piston crown to produce more power. The cooler you can keep the operating environment, the more thermally efficient your engine becomes. This doesn’t add a ton of horsepower, but every last bit helps, and it helps keep your engine alive. I don’t run coolant. I live in southern California. We don’t get snow. I don’t need an anti freezing additive. I run distilled water, with some RedLine Water Wetter to help aid the process. It does contain anti rust inhibitors just in case my distilled water was a bad batch from the water factory and slipped past Q.C. with some minerals still remaining. Note: Water Wetter is not a replacement for coolant in the sense that it needs to be changed more frequently. While it does contain rust inhibitors, their life expectancy significantly shorter than those in standard coolant. Mating the Individual throttles to the cylinder head is a Hondata Thermal Intake Gasket. This helps keep cylinder head temps down, which in turn keeps incoming air temps down which in term produces more power. Repeat after me. Every little bit helps. Conclusion: While the motor is done and assembled it has not been installed in the car and fired up yet.. I will update this thread or create another with initial start up and break in procedure along with a couple tricks for extra power and some interesting testing I have planned for the dyno session. Thanks for reading. Comments/suggestions/questions welcome.

09-08-2006, 05:37 PM	#2
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,534	A few more people i wanted to thank real quick... Steve @ BPE Racing Heads Paul @ BPE Racing Heads Steve @ Omnipower Earl @ Laskey Racing __________________ EARL LASKEY, YOU WILL BE MISSED CCCylinderheads.com Check out the INDUCTION SPECIAL Matco Doublebay Toolbox FOR SALE Click Here!

09-08-2006, 05:47 PM	#3
Professor15 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Long Island, N.y, usa Posts: 2,090	Looks like a very promising build...keep it up. __________________ Ya tu Sabe ent.

09-08-2006, 06:12 PM	#5
mtber H-T Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 21,112	Re: Volumetric Proficiency by Combustion Contraption... 85x89 Build (Combustion Contraption) Looks good, what are you going to use to tune it ? __________________ http://www.Phearable.net - 1-888-236-9831 Chipped Ecus / RC & Precision Injectors / Fuel Pumps / Widebands / OBD Harnesses Authorized Dealer for: Hondata, eCtune, Neptune, AEM, Crome, Precision & more.

09-08-2006, 06:14 PM	#6
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,534	I already have Hondata S200 from the old setup, but im looking into something with an Alpha-N capability. __________________ EARL LASKEY, YOU WILL BE MISSED CCCylinderheads.com Check out the INDUCTION SPECIAL Matco Doublebay Toolbox FOR SALE Click Here!

09-08-2006, 06:29 PM	#7
clean rice Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: GO PACKERS Posts: 5,492	Re: (Combustion Contraption) Looks promising __________________ <FONT COLOR="red">Rocket Motorsports</FONT> and<FONT COLOR="green"> MFactory dealer</FONT> <FONT COLOR="blue">camshafts - valvetrain - gearing - LSD's etc..</FONT> *-Rest in peace Gramma..-*

09-08-2006, 06:33 PM	#8
smokey2.0 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: coral springs, florida, us Posts: 4,165	Re: (Combustion Contraption) how much WW will you use, in your cooling system? i use it in my crx(eg radiator), but i'm not 100% sure if i'm adding the right amount! good luck with your project __________________ you never know until you try! buyers: AllMotorCRX90--B18Flip--motore--b18c1_powered_si--Petah--blackstar--not so civic--TOR--igo4bmx sellers: b18c1_powered_si--Dominican_Kid--owen_the_soyboy--jason--Sp00n'd Supra--powerfulperformance--stingray2772--PseudoSilvia--nasteboyii--Big Teggie--toyosupr--EL Vap133--b19coupe--c13r--Kidloco51--dizzyroc88--MwGSR--bjorn156--seek167

09-08-2006, 06:36 PM	#9
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,534	I generally use about half the bottle, even though thats way over the amount that redline tells you to use per ratio of water. No negative effects so far. __________________ EARL LASKEY, YOU WILL BE MISSED CCCylinderheads.com Check out the INDUCTION SPECIAL Matco Doublebay Toolbox FOR SALE Click Here!

09-08-2006, 07:11 PM	#11
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,534	No problem. __________________ EARL LASKEY, YOU WILL BE MISSED CCCylinderheads.com Check out the INDUCTION SPECIAL Matco Doublebay Toolbox FOR SALE Click Here!

09-08-2006, 07:15 PM	#12
mike_belben@yahoo.com Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: not riding any bandwagons in, massachusetts, usa Posts: 1,565	a drop of liquid handsoap serves the same purpose as water wetter, relieves surface tension between the boundary layer of fluid and the material it is cooling. nice work. in the future i think you can do a little more edge removal on the chamber where the pockets were cut.. the coanda effect makes me feel that its important to have a valveseat that flows from port to chamber smoothly throughout. if possible, doing your own valvejobs will really open up a whole world of new things for you. keep at it! __________________ Gone Fishin'

09-08-2006, 08:16 PM	#15
91SiZ6 Join Date: May 2006 Location: California, United States Posts: 961	Way cool. __________________ ArtieTuned D16Z6 135.6whp 111.8tq. http://www.LSDMotorSports.com http://www.RyWire.com http://www.CTRDynoSports http://www.ArtieTuned.com http://www.J-K-Tuning.com

09-08-2006, 08:27 PM	#16
ALLMOTOR18 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 3,840	Re: (91SiZ6) Nice build.. Let us know how much power it makes... __________________ For Sale: AIT Pologger Boost Solenoid, PLX Wideband, Revhard Intake Manifold, Racing Seats, Konig Wheels, HX Wheels, Skinnies, GSR Cams, Integra GSR Parts http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2417440

09-08-2006, 10:20 PM	#17
sheepey Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Riversides Finest, America Posts: 4,724	Good work Steve! Nice pictures and explinations. Let me know when dyno day comes ( mine is within a week) __________________ DPK* x ATS* = WEST COAST ALL STARS.. http://is.rely.net/1-92-29998-l-1gbM...AmVuBW3hGg.gif

09-09-2006, 12:11 AM	#18
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,534	Thanks man. Mine wont be for a bit, im finally gonna get around to that trans upgrade. __________________ EARL LASKEY, YOU WILL BE MISSED CCCylinderheads.com Check out the INDUCTION SPECIAL Matco Doublebay Toolbox FOR SALE Click Here!

09-09-2006, 06:11 AM	#19
Runnerdown Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 2,356	Re: (Combustion Contraption) Nice build! With that displacement, pro1 cams and itbs this will be a blast to drive for sure. __________________ http://www.synapsemotorsport.com 12.4@109 all motor street car w/stock cams. Curiosity is the mother of creativity.

09-09-2006, 06:23 AM	#20
GSRCRXsi Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,658	Re: (Runnerdown) what is your compression? __________________ WTB: clean crx shell http://hondamarketplace.com/zerothread?id=1490544 Please give what you can to the Tom Cote Medical Fund http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1828476

09-09-2006, 07:22 AM	#21
dinko Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Penguin in the fridge,, IA, USA Posts: 3,804	Re: (GSRCRXsi) I've been hearing this K-Series bearing thing...but haven't really read up on it. Whats the procedure u went thru to get the bearing sizes u wanted? __________________ Currently Honda-less! DINKODESIGN.COM - My graphic design portfolio