businessmanph

I drive a 97 accord ex 4, tire size 195/60/15

I’m in the market for some quality snow tires. I went to a tire shop in Silver City and the dealer recommended Hakkapeliitta RSi tires for $105 each.

What is the difference between the following tires: Hakkapeliitta 2, Hakkapeliitta 4, or the Hakkapeliitta RSi?

Do you guys recommend any other brand of quality tires?

I know you pay for what you get but, are there any cheap quality tires, for example $50-$75 each?

Do you guys have any reviews on these tires, do you recommend them?

Do you guys know of any dealers in the Syracuse or Albany, New York area?

I want snow tires this season because I got into an accident last winter. I have POS GY tripletreds. I know the way you drive matters the most but, my current all season tires suck A. The funny thing is, is that tire rack gave these tires 9+ ratings. Why I do not know.

nsxtasy

There are a lot of excellent winter tires on the market, and many are available in that size. They tend to break down into two groups:

a) tires that have the very best traction on snow and ice, but have so-so ride and handling on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, Dunlop Graspic DS-2, and Michelin X-Ice. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "studless ice and snow tires".)

b) tires that have good traction on snow and ice and in cold, although not quite as good as the previous group, but they also have very good ride and handling characteristics on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 and the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "performance winter tires".)

The choice between these two categories depends on the climate in your area, how much highway driving you do in the winter, how much you care about ultimate snow/ice grip versus ride comfort, whether you have another vehicle to use in the worst of winter, etc. Oh, and the tires in category (a) are usually significantly less expensive than category (b), which may be important. For example, I want the best snow/ice traction and I don't mind sacrificing some ride comfort and handling for those three months a year (mid-December to mid-March around here), and winter weather here in Chicago can be fairly nasty, so I have category (a) tires. But your priorities may be different, and you might be better off getting the category (b) tires. Then again, come to think of it, you're in that bad snow belt in upstate New York - you might be better off choosing category (a) tires for the same reasons. Also, they're cheaper, which is a good thing.

Here are Tire Rack prices per tire for your size:

<u>Category (a) - Best Snow/Cold Performance</u>
Bridgestone Blizzak Revo 1 $77
Dunlop Graspic DS-2 $63
Michelin X-Ice $78
Pirelli Winter Carving $67

<u>Category (b) - Best Ride/Handling in Moderate Temps</u>
Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 $99

These are all excellent tires.

If you buy your tires from the Tire Rack, they have thousands of recommended installers all over the country. You can look up ones in your area, and check what they charge for mounting/balancing, on the Tire Rack website here. If you like, you can buy the tires and have them shipped to the installer instead of to you. Your choice.

You found out the difference between all-season tires and winter tires the hard way. All-season tires are compromise tires - okay in winter but not as good as winter tires, okay in summer but not as good as summer tires. Just about any winter tire is going to be much better in snow and frigid cold than just about any all-season tire. Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Those ratings are not given by the Tire Rack, but rather, by the customers who bought those tires. That information is sometimes useful, often not. For one thing, the ratings depend a lot on who buys the tires, and what car they buy them for; for another thing, they tell more about how the tires compare to people's expectations rather than their outright abilities. For example, a cheap tire whose performance is fairly good might get better marks than a top performing, expensive tire, because the former tire exceeds expectations more than the latter one does. In any case, I think people base their evaluations of all-season tires primarily on how they do in warm weather, much more so than how they do in winter. (Many people in warm climates buy all-season tires and never drive them in snow at all.)

Neo79Si

Nice breakdown of winter tires Ken!!

If you were considering the Hakkapeliitta's @ $105/ea...then I would definitely recommend the Dunlop Graspic DS-2's in their place. I have fun the previous generation Graspic DS-1's on my NON-ABS equipped Civic Si for 3 winters, and have never felt more confident than I did with those tires on. Plus, for $63/ea...you can hardly afford not to give them a try.

For what it's worth, I will be running Dunlop Winter Sport M3's (H-rated) on my BMW 330Ci this coming winter.

Winter tires!

Thanks,
Matt

FREDDY5

The Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires are the absolute best. I have them on my Honda Pilot. The Nokian Hakka RSi is the studless tire and Nokian Hakka 2 and Hakka 4 are studdable. The Nokian Hakka 4 only comes factory studded with the revolutionary square studs. I buy mine from the Tire Factory in MI. They ship for FREE and its NO sales tax outside MI. Their web-site is http://www.tirefactory.net and their phone number is 800-576-1009 - Ask for Ryan. If you mention the forum they may give you $10 off per tire.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FREDDY5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nokian Hakka 2 and Hakka 4 are studdable. The Nokian Hakka 4 only comes factory studded with the revolutionary square studs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Check your state's regulations regarding the use of studded tires. In some states, they are only permitted during specific times of the year, and in others (including Illinois), they are prohibited at all times.

Some studless winter tires will give you traction that's as good as studded tires.

businessmanph

thanks for the info

old man neri

a) make sure you ask the dealer for winter tires and not snow tires, big dif.

b) if you are looking to save money look in the classifieds... you can sometimes find already mounted tires for cheap. I found 4 winter's with 2000mi on them for about $125. Just a thought. But make sure they are hardly used, in a lot of winter tires the special silica compounds are only in the first half of the tread.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a) make sure you ask the dealer for winter tires and not snow tires, big dif.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not true. Winter tires and snow tires are the same thing.

For many years, winter tires were called snow tires. In recent years, the manufacturers and dealers have been emphasizing the term winter tires, which is a more accurate description of these tires (because they are not just designed for traction on snow, but also with compounds that still stay supple and grip in frigid temperatures, even when the roads are dry).

Perhaps you meant to say winter tires and not all-season tires - and those ARE two different things.

old man neri

no, I meant to say what I said I said. Grant it there are no text book definitions and perhaps it depends where you grew up. But from where I grew up snow tires meant those really nobby tries that are meant for deep snow and are usually only found on trucks. They are only good for deep snow, suck on ice and water. Where as winter tires are good in light snow, ice, water....etc.

Snow tires are used out in the country.

But anyways, I really don't want to pick apart this point. It really doesn't matter when you think of it. Just semantics.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">snow tires meant those really nobby tries that are meant for deep snow and are usually only found on trucks. They are only good for deep snow, suck on ice and water. Where as winter tires are good in light snow, ice, water....etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Those are also called winter tires. Winter tires designed for SUVs and other trucks are designed somewhat differently from winter tires designed for passenger cars. And some winter tires are designed to deal better with snow, while others are designed to provide a decent highway ride while dealing okay with snow. But they are still all called winter tires. That's why you won't find any mention of "snow tires" on the Tire Rack website, which sells most of the various tires designed for winter conditions, including ones for trucks and SUVs, etc. They're all called winter tires these days.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It really doesn't matter when you think of it. Just semantics. </TD></TR></TABLE>

businessmanph

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Those are also called winter tires. Winter tires designed for SUVs and other trucks are designed somewhat differently from winter tires designed for passenger cars. And some winter tires are designed to deal better with snow, while others are designed to provide a decent highway ride while dealing okay with snow. But they are still all called winter tires. That's why you won't find any mention of "snow tires" on the Tire Rack website, which sells most of the various tires designed for winter conditions, including ones for trucks and SUVs, etc. They're all called winter tires these days.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for the info i just ordered them yesterday. the sales rep did give me 10 bucks off each tire too. so $420 shipped

i hope these tires are worth the money


Modified by businessmanph at 12:07 PM 10/10/2005

businessmanph

the tires got to my house in 3 days of ordering, pretty quick delivery

I know I shouldn’t be posting this but, I’m in need of 5 gen accord rims. Can someone help me find a seller in the New York area preferably near Albany, Syracuse, buffalo, Binghamton, and NYC? I already posted on h-t market place. Holla please before the snow comes.

I’m looking for 4 of these



Or

4 of these



I don’t know anything about rims BTW
I have a stock size of 195/60/15, 4*114.3
What other rims would fit my car?

My price range is $200. I am willing to pick up.

If I can’t find alloy rims, how much would steelies cost me?

Thanks

old man neri

why don't you just buy 4 steelies for 200 or less? they are just for winter right?

nsxtasy

The Tire Rack does not have steel wheels available for your car, but they have inexpensive alloy wheels for $65-69 each:

$65


$68


$69


Too bad you didn't buy them at the same time as the tires, or you could have had them mounted and balanced for free before shipping...

Slow EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neo79Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dunlop Graspic DS-2's in their place. I have fun the previous generation Graspic DS-1's on my NON-ABS equipped Civic Si for 3 winters, and have never felt more confident than I did with those tires on. Plus, for $63/ea...you can hardly afford not to give them a try.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is what I will be ordering soon for this winter. I am hoping they are good even with the relativly low price.

businessmanph

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why don't you just buy 4 steelies for 200 or less? they are just for winter right? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wanted to use my current shitty stock rims for winter.







I don't want steelies but if i can't get stock rims, i will buy them.

tirerack doesn't sell nokian rsi tires.

the package deal for rims, tires, balancing would come out to 700+. i forgot the exact amount.

i figure balancing is 10-15 dollars each. i'm not sure how much the tire installation is.


thanks for the feed back btw

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wanted to use my current shitty stock rims for winter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes sense. The only downside (which you're obviously aware of) is that you won't be able to take advantage of the free mounting and balancing available when you buy a set of wheels and tires at the same time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tirerack doesn't sell nokian rsi tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they don't (which is a downside of Nokian tires). However, they sell some other brands of winter tires that are outstanding. Since you live in the snowbelt of upstate New York, I would recommend one of the Tire Rack's "studless ice and snow tires" (see my description above for why I recommend these). The Bridgestone Blizzak Revo 1 is an excellent winter tire for use on snow and ice. So is the Michelin X-Ice.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the package deal for rims, tires, balancing would come out to 700+. i forgot the exact amount.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That depends on which rims you get. You may want to spend more for rims to find ones that you really like, since the rims you buy are not just for winter. But you could spend less than $700. For example, if you bought the $65 rims shown above, that would be $260 for the rims. A set of four Blizzak Revo 1 tires in 195/60-15 costs $308, so that's $568.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i figure balancing is 10-15 dollars each. i'm not sure how much the tire installation is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mounting (i.e. installation) and balancing is a single charge, usually $10-20 each at most places.

businessmanph

Noob Qs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

would these rims fit on my 97 accord ex 4 cyc without rubbing?



are motegi rims worth looking into?

here are the specs

Finish: Silver
Size: 16" x 7"
Bolt Pattern: 4 on 100, and 4 on 4.5(114.3)
Offset: +42mm
Weight: 20 lbs/wheel
Center Caps Included

how wide of a rim can i get?

what is a good offset?
what is the max and min offset that i could have on my car?

is 20 lbs heavy for a rim?

do you think the 15s are worth getting or should i go with 16s?

old man neri

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Noob Qs




do you think the 15s are worth getting or should i go with 16s?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably a little fancy for winter rims.....

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Probably a little fancy for winter rims.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Reading comprehension is your friend. Perhaps you missed the part where he said (several times):

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wanted to use my current shitty stock rims for winter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

old man neri

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Reading comprehension is your friend. Perhaps you missed the part where he said (several times):


</TD></TR></TABLE>


my bad, I got confused, I thought it was someone else asking the question. I think I am just going to shut up now..........

nsxtasy

businessmanph

will these specs fit my 97 accord ex 4 cyl stock wheel size 195/60/15?

Size.....15 x 6JJ
Offset.....+50
Lug Pattern.....4H x 114.3

195/?/15 how wide can i go with the middle number? i'm scared that my back suspension won't allow a wide rim

nsxtasy

I'm not sure whether you're asking whether the wheels fit your car, or what size tires to use on those wheels.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by businessmanph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">195/?/15 how wide can i go with the middle number?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The middle number doesn't have anything to do with the width of the tire OR the width of the rim. The middle rim is the "aspect ratio" and tells how tall the sidewalls are, in relation to the width of the tire. On a 195/60-15 tire, the tread is 195 mm wide, and the sidewall is 195 mm * .60 = 117 mm tall.

You can (and should) use 195/60-15 tires on your 15x6 rims. Most 195/60-15 tires are approved for rim widths of 5.5 to 7.0 inches.

businessmanph

what is the offset for this rim?