Atomic1

Do oil control rings really ever wear out? When I hear people say, you've blown your oil rings, what exactly does this mean? Lets assume compression is good.

I can understand how oil control rings could get stuck in the lands if people let their oil go too long leaving sludge, etc to get the rings stuck, but I dont understand how they could become worn.

If they're worn, what is this caused by. Do you have to really beat on the engine?

nsxter

there warn down when metal on metal grind against each other its common sense

Atomic1

There's no metal on metal contact in an engine. If there were, it would be gone in less than a few miles.

nsxter

are you dumb cylinder wall=metal, oil ring=metal, there is your metal on metal contact what do you think oil is for

Atomic1

Damn dude, gotta be harsh? Just trying to learn. If you don't like the question then don't post.

The oil prevents metal on metal contact. Every moving part in an engine works like this, the question is how much wear the oil imparts on the metal. I'm sure it's a different rate for rings vs bearings.

I was just trying to gage the liklihood of having stuck oil control rings versus worn rings. I've loosely read people saying that hondas are notorious for having stuck oil control rings. Wonder if this is true.

The next question was going to be if there's any good way to free stuck rings other than a rebuild.

Scott_Tucker

In my experience the oil control rings do not normally wear much. They usually stick in the ring land due to carbon build up.

Scott_Tucker

Agreed that was too harsh. The rings don't have any direct metal to metal contact in normal operation if the conditions of lubrication are correct. You can try putting marvel mystery oil in with your oil to free them up, it works pretty well.

NJIN BUILDR

It's always stuck oil rings in my experience too.A worn out or upside down second ring is usually the cause of burning oil.

Atomic1

As much as I hate putting additives in the crankcase I may try this. Hopefully it doesn't make things worse.

Scott_Tucker

I agree you should not put additives in the oil just for the sake of putting additives in your oil but the MMO won't hurt anything. You can also pull the spark plugs and put a couple of ounces in the cylinders and let it sit overnight to work into the rings. Most of the oil should get past the piston rings overnight so you usually don't have to worry about hydro locking the engine but it is a good idea to crank over the engine a few times with the plugs removed to blow out most of the residual oil.

DCFIVER

The oil rings are designed to scrape the oil from the cylinder walls, so even with lubrication you still have metal to metal contact.

Scott_Tucker

But its very rare to have direct metal to metal contact. This might happen where the viscosity of the oil has broken down and the additives are used up.

However, the oil control rings have pretty light tension so they are not pressing very hard on the cylinder walls. Plus they have a thicker oil film floating them off the cylinder walls than the compression rings have.

Atomic1

....and the piston is moving at what, 20 meters/second? Those rings are flying over a portion of the oil like waterskis.

TurboChurch

Every engine has metal to metal contact when it starts up. Did you think oil was just sitting there in the cylinder all day and night? It doesnt. As the engine cranks, the pistons are moving on a dry cylinder until you have enough pressure to get oil through every orifice. The rods and crank also splash oil as they rotate through it in the pan. These are the only ways that the cylinder gets oil put on it. Metal to metal will always happen every day until someone invents a frictionless engine capabale of producing power.

Scott_Tucker

Actually it does overnight. There is still enough oil on the cylinder walls to avoid direct metal to metal contact. Of course, there is the possibility of very slight metal to metal contact when first started but its not enough to cause appreciable wear.

Mikey3000

not on hondas bro.

DCFIVER

More than a possibility. It has been proven (bobistheoilgy.com) that cold starts are the number one cause of wear in an engine. This is why it is srongly reccomended that the correct weight oil for the engine be used. Not all 30 wts are created the same. 5w should be use where applicable and so on...

TurboChurch

Exactly.

Uhm yeah it does. Any engine that has a wet sump , the crank and the rods cut right through the oil. Why do you think they "knife edge" the crank, so it looks cool. You would probably say less weight and be partly right. The other reason is because it has to go through the oil. Guess what happens when a metal object cuts through a liquid. It slings it everywhere.

Scott_Tucker

The crank does not sit directly in the oil.

DCFIVER

Wrong. Many cars, especially Hondas have what are called windage trays that cover up the crank so that this phenomena does not occur. It has been shown to cause parasitic drag when the oil is splashed about by the crank and windage trays were added years ago to reduce this.

namewasdallas

Very true its also why they make dry sump systems,

namewasdallas

But atomic go get some marvel mystery oil, i just went last night and got a bottle like 5 bucks for the red ****, stuff is super thin, just poor enough to cover the the entire piston as you want it to soak all the way around the entire rings. If you do only a small amount and not enough it will go to one side and seap down. Only thing i may recommend is a new set of plugs. Incase there's some that will wash your plugs out. happend to me today with throttle body cleaner

DCFIVER

wrong, see post #20. And with a dry sump the only thing that changes is the oil pump is externaly mounted.

Atomic1

Tried the mmo soak, so we'll see how it goes in the next 1000 miles.

Atomic1

I actually did two overnight soaks. MMO didn't even take the carbon off the tops of the pistons. Doesn't seem to have helped at all.... oh well. Should I have tried the same thing using seafoam?