thatgreenhatch

Stock d16z6, header, skunk 2 cat back, aem cold air intake. Started out by resealing the top end of the engine with a cometic head gasket set "pro2000t" (part number). After assembly and start up it smoked a little dues to residue cleared up. As it warmed up it started smoking again. Did some testing, plugged off pcv system, leak down test and a compression test everything is ok. So I ripped the head off again and installed new honda oem valve seals 8 intake and 8 exhaust and a felpro head gasket. Started it up still smokes and burns excessive amount of oil did the same tests same results. Im clueless at this point cant figure anything out. VALVE GUIDES ARE NOT CRACKED...

holmesnmanny

Compression test wet and dry to see if its the rings.

What was the original issue ?

thatgreenhatch

There was no issue to begin with he just wanted to reseal the top end just because the cam seal was leaking.

m4xwellmurd3r

Most of the time when hondas burn oil, its gunked up oil control rings, not valve seals. That or the valve guides are extremely worn out.

thatgreenhatch

It never had this problem in the beginning. The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head. Did a leak down test and everything is holding no leaks found threw the exhaust, intake, or the oil cap. And again the pcv system is bypassed at this point until i solve the problem.

thatgreenhatch

Also did a compression test 1- 185psi 2- 186psi 3- 188psi 4- 183psi.

m4xwellmurd3r

Bad oil rings wont show up in a compression test since they have nothing to do with compression. Oil in the intake ports sounds like a gunked pcv valve. Is the oil build up pretty heavy in the intake manifold?

Btw bypassing the system leads to more issues as crank case pressure builds up

holmesnmanny

Dont listen to anyone that says anything like the above. Your compression test numbers seems fine.

m4xwellmurd3r

His numbers are fine. What I was implying was despite the good numbers his oil rongs could still be stuck since they dont contribute to the conpression numbers, only the top 2 rings do.

For example, I had a b18a1 that tested 210 on all 4 using my gauge. It eventually spun a rod bearing cause the po had a tight bearing. The engine always smoked after coasting in gear at high rpm

Upon disassembly, I noticed the oil control rings were sludged and stuck really bad. Basically they werent doin their job properly.

thatgreenhatch

He is right oil rings wont effect your numbers but they will show bad in a leak down and im not using the entire leak down tool and nevet have always just used compressed air straight from the tank (160psi) and shows no sgins of leakage.

DCFIVER

It is completely true. The oil control rings can be completely shot,and the engine will still have good compression.

DCFIVER

Bad oil rings will not show up in a leak down test either. The only known tests for bad oil rings are a few circumstantial events. (fouled plugs,smoking tail pipe and the piston edges "washed")



Sorry I cannot offer any advice s to what direction to to go other than to remove the head and double check your work.

holmesnmanny

Have some of you not heard of a wet compression test ?

DCFIVER

Apparently you do not know what a "wet"compression test is nor how the rings work on a piston.




There is no test for oil control rings.

holmesnmanny

It's physically impossible to have good compression but still have bad piston rings.(obviously if you have good compression BOTH sets of rings are good).

If he had bad compression, then yeah obviously it could be piston rings or valve seals, which is why you would do a wet test to determine if the rings are bad. But if his compression numbers are fine, then obviously there is no leak.

Unless somehow the oil is leaking past the rings and into a black hole before it gets into the combustion chamber, which is causing his compression numbers to still be high. But I think this is common sense.

m4xwellmurd3r

You do realize that engines have 3 rings right? The top 2 are compression rings. They are what create compression. Tge 3rd is the oil control ring (which actually consists of 3 parts, 2 scrapers and a spring ring that seperate them and hold them against the cylinder.

The oil ring does not create compression. If you removed the oil ring completely, engine compression during a test would show zero change.

The oil ring simply scrapes off excess oil from the cylinder walls to ensure the engine doesnt burn the oil. When oil rings get sludged and stuck, the spring ring cant push the scrapers against the cylinder wall (they are very low tension rings vs compression rings, only applying enough pressure to scrape off excess oil) so they can get stuck in the piston and allow excess oil to burn off.

Spiff671

holmesnmanny

If the compression rings are sealing to the point that your compression is perfect, meaning that oil isnt getting past it, but you seem to think that oil is getting past the oil control rings, where exactly is this magical oil disappearing to ?

Again, im just begging you to say its escaping into a black hole located just beyond the oil control rings but before the compression rings. /laff

DCFIVER

Its one thing to be ignorant on a subject and then subsequently learn,quite another to continue on in the moronic vein that you are ,with out even bothering to try to understand.


Youre wrong. Period. Sit back,read, and learn,you have nothing useful to contribute to this thread.


One or two backyard builds, rummaging around a salvage yard pulling parts does not a professional make.....

Runnerdown

Compression and leak down are common suggestions for amateur internet mechanics with little real experience. When the oil scraping rings fail this places the majority of the oil scraping to the second ring. Technically the second ring also is considered an oil ring but when overwhelmed will pass oil through the gap especially under vacuum. I have rebuild so many Hondas with good compression, leak down and performance that had high oil consumption. DCFIVER and m4xwell are right on the money.

holmesnmanny

No, you're completely wrong. If you have low compression then sure it's possible for oil to seep past, but not with good numbers. This is common sense and is the reason for a wet compression test. Apparently none of you know how to interpret compression test numbers nor what a wet compression test does.

Yeah, if you have low compression numbers, even if they are all the same, that could mean you have leaking rings, but you can't have good compression numbers like the ones the OP posted and still have leaking rings. It's not possible. And there is a lot more power in a combustion stroke than there is in 22 inches of vacuum or a leakdown test. Neither of those will yield the force necessary to successfully test piston rings.

But you guys can keep thinking that, but not everyone else in the planet that knows what a wet compression test does and how to interpret high compression numbers across the board.

http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-...n-testing.html

Runnerdown

Whatever you wanna think guy. Not getting into it with you on this topic.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

lol people don't read for ****.

he says "The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head"
and everyone is beating the dead horse about piston rings you fried

and the fact that it didn't burn oil before the valvejob

if the valve lash was too tight his leakdown would show
he said he did compression and leakdown.

are you 100% positive that you got the valve seals installed correctly?
and you can test on decelerate.
if during deceleration it starts smoking then your valve seals are leaking
because high vacuum is pulling oil through the seals when you decelerate if they are not installed good or defective or valves are worn out or just slightly bent


as it happened to me sometimes shops will mess with the valve guides and scuff them to"freshen up".
that's what happened to me. after the freshening up I lost oil in about 200 miles and my engine was toast because I didn't see it smoke at night when I was driving back
brand new valve seals also

holmesnmanny

OP, just for the hell of it, swap out the pcv valve with one from Honda and see if that fixes it.

Runnerdown

If he only replaced gaskets and seals it does sound like something isnt installed or fitting properly. But lets not forget when it comes to the whole vacuum condition/oil burning, this does not isolate it to the valve seals. The piston movement creates the vacuum condition, negative pressure will start there and go all the way to the throttle plate. So anywhere in that path where oil can get in is suspect.

Sometimes if you rebuild or replace the head on a relatively tired block the fresh valve job can increase the vacuum enough to start more smoking and oil consumption. But from the OP's description its sounds like only gaskets, not a valve job or guides etc.