Jason B.

I have a 97 civic dx coupe,

I just completed a full energy suspension bushing upgrade on the front end plus, new upper and lower front control arms, new inner and outer tie rods, sway bar, ES engine torque mounts on new mounts, dampers, wheel bearings, Bosch rotors and a fresh coat of black paint for all the cleaned and sandblasted parts. I also replaced the subframe with a much less rusty one from a 99 I found at the junk.

It started out as bushings but lead to much much more.

So, I have everything back together and it's perfect, tight steering with a impressive upgrade in handling but.... I have this brake issue. Let me first start by saying, I did not remove any brake lines, calipers were hung with safety wire from the bracket that connects the hardline to the rubber connecting line. They were compressed with a proper tool and re-installed without issue.

I wanted to go for a test drive so I pumped my brakes, started the car and backed out of the garage. At the end of the driveway I have no brakes and use my e-brake to stop. A little freaked out because I've done brakes 100 time and never had this happen. So I try pumping the brakes again and they pump up fine with the car showing all signs of good braking, I'm thinking I made a mistake at this point. The car was very dirty after two weeks of sitting in the garage so I stopped at the car wash to spray it down. I left it idling because it's about -5 here currently and when I got back in after about 10 minutes the brake peddle went freely to the floor. I pumped them back up and drove home without a problem.

A little confused with what's going on I do a little searching and realize I might have a vacuum leak so I run a test. I remove the booster line to the IM run the test and it holds solid vacuum from the engine side. I test the check valve and inspect the booster line but all seemed good. My booster was a little rusted at the bottom so I decided to replace it.

I install a new booster thinking it's going to fix the issue but it didn't. Now I notice when I'm stopped and turn the wheel all the way to the left until it stops I lose the brakes but they can be pumped up to working order again. This will happen with the car running, turned off, booster connected and disconnected. This hose when connected to the booster and IM does seem to make the idle rough though.

I've gone over my work with a microscope checking for mistakes, replaced parts that I guess didn't need replacement but still have a never before seen (to me) issue. I really like to stop so this is kinda important for me but I really don't want to keep throwing money at it without knowing what's really going on.

P.S. I have no loss of fluid.
I also have manual steering.

m4xwellmurd3r

Sounds like a master cylinder failure if you had no fluid loss. Master cylinders can fail internally without warning. I had one fail in my old z car at the worst time. Someone cut out in front of me. I hit the brakes, and only had back brakes. Yanked on the ebrake and bareky slowed down enough to avoid hitting the dumb broad.

There was no indication it was going bad before that point.

Jason B.

After much reading and more testing it ended up being the MC. Thank you.

Jason B.

A bunch of new parts and still the same problem, new booster, booster line/check calve from dealer, MC, and one really good system flush.

I have found as the steering reaches it's limits going left or right the peddle will rise slightly before losing booster pressure (or it seems) and the peddle falls to the floor.

m4xwellmurd3r

Does it happen when sitting still or only when youre driving?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

You probably are pinching a brake line or pulling a caliper back with a brake line on steering inputs. Post a pic of how you routed your brake lines.

BTW, a bad booster would give you a hard, but ineffective pedal.

yevangelis

bad rubber brake lines expanding? Or you somehow STILL have air in the system, did you bench bleed the MC ?

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

This is a very likely reason for the pedal fluctuation while at the limits of turning. I agree that you should start by checking your lines.

Jason B.

Inspected the lines with my brother, couldn't find anything pinched or bulging. I'm at a loss with this and have dropped more than $200 on parts that probably didn't need replacement.

Also, there seems to be a vacuum problem but only when the booster is reconnected.

Jason B.

So I'm back again with the same problem...

I have completed another project and was positive there would be no way any lingering brake issues could remain. I gave the old DX a full Si brake upgrade (front knuckles and rear trailing arms) that included all new calipers, pads, MC, and 99% of the factory hardware was replaced with new OEM parts. I also replaced most all of the factory brake lines with new OEM lines, and thanks to the classic rust issue all the fuel lines too (holy chit that was expensive).

I put a new power steering rack in the subframe, it was out so why not, right? Then added all the hardware and pump to finally experience power steering on this car. I've upgraded the suspension to Hardrace fully adjustable hardware, performed paint and body work, rust repair and so much more. I'm over $2K and have a care that I'm proud to say was restored, repaired, and upgraded with the utmost care and precision.

So, my point to all of this is the car has had a lot of work done (by me). I'm even that guy that Torques bolts to spec then paint marks and uses safety wire whenever possible. Do it right or don't do it at all is how I see it.

One question that came up between some car loving friends was the subject of steering bump stops. I know the car does not have any and could not find any subjects in forum or Google searching. With this I decided to take a closer look at what's stopping the steering movement and found this,




The small red spot is a rub mark from where the Shock Fork has made contact with the steel brake line on the caliper. Could this contact cause a loss of brakes? They will still pump back to normal in two pumps but this is not a problem i want to have so maybe welding in some bump stops would solve this?

I am at a loss here with why this is even happening or how it could happen. I don't let hack mechanic shops work on my car so I'm not taking it somewhere. My next option is taking it to the dealer but I really don't want to spend that kind of money for someone that I don't want touching my car to tell me something stupid like "must be these aftermarket parts your have on here".

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

Are the forks installed on the wrong side of the vehicle? They shouldn't physically be able to contact the caliper or lines and having them mounted on the incorrect side can allow them to make contact.

Is there contact on both sides or just one? When the wheels are pointed straight do you have the same amount of turns to reach full lock in either direction? Have you had it aligned?

Did you compare the calipers (original to new) while you had them all off the car to see if there were differences in the brake line mounting? If there was are you using lines for the originals or the SIs?

Jason B.

That is probably the best answer I've heard, thank you very much! Because this is a continued issue from the original braking system I am now 100% sure I have the shock forks on the wrong side. I can't wait to get home and check it out!!!

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

Glad to help! Keep the thread updated please! I looked at your pictures before replying but it wasn't really clear from what I could see. Hopefully it's something as simple as that.

Jason B.

Sorry for the late update.

That was it, had to switch the forks around and everything went back to normal.