93_hatchie

I've got a '99 Civic Si with almost 200K miles and it's time for new suspension. I've been researching products based on previous experience, budget and product reviews on tirerack.com. I don't go to the race track and am not interested in anything more than 1.5" drop. I already purchased the Energy Suspension polyurethane kit for the car.

I've narrowed my other selections down to:

Springs-
Eiback Pro Kit (have had twice in the past and always enjoyed)
H&R OE Sport (just discovered today, less of a drop than Pro Kit)

Struts-
KYB AGX
Koni Str.t

My questions are:

1. Do I need to do a performance strut like the KYB AGX if I am going with a mild drop and not planning on any kind of track racing?

2. Will a performance strut (KYB AGX) be better for traction if I plan on some sort of boost later on down the road?

3. Does anyone have any feedback on the products I'm considering, such as what works well together?

Thanks in advance for the help!

racebum

tein htech is another spring to consider. on the dc2 the rates are better imo than either of your choices, more balance to to higher rear rates and slightly more firm. check for your app and compare to the rates of the two you list. the other really cool part is h techs never have that low back end look so many springs do. shock wise. i'd grab the str.t's and be happy. you could get koni sports for a little more but if you aren't racing. strt.t's are fine with modest spring rates.

if any boost-racing plans are in the works just buy koni sports, use your stock springs in the mean time and use the lower perch setting for a little over 1" of drop. once you have more cash or get faster you can do the ground control conversion with any rate you want.

thmotorsports.com will sell you sports for $450 a set

93_hatchie

Thanks for the info. I originally wanted the Koni Sports, but I couldn't find them for less than $600 a set. $450 is more do-able.

I am hoping to get a mild turbo setup soon, and like I said before I don't want a crazy drop and also don't want too stiff of a ride. If I went with the Koni Sports, which of the 3 springs would best fit my goal- H&R OE Sports, Eibach Pro, or Tein H-Tech?

I also plan on running stock wheels (15") with summer tires, if that makes a difference.

dandaman15

If it was up to me, I would pick the H&R. I think their regular sport springs would be better though. OE only drops like 1in. sports drop like 1.75 and it feels a little more sporty.

kommon_sense

For a mild drop, I would suggest the H&R OE Sports. Springs that mild will work fine with an oem shock, so even the KYB GR2 would work well.

93_hatchie

Would the KYB GR2/H&R OE Sports be a good combination for a turbo application?

I was thinking I could go Koni Sport/H&R OE Sport, so that I could get a little more drop, plus a little adjustability.

How does that combination sound?

racebum

go to team integra and look up the rates for all of these. the oe sport is another light weight lowering spring that is only 15% stiffer than stock and has a .75" drop. not worth buying imo since you could use the stock springs on koni sports and just ride on the lower perch. at least with the h tech you move the rates up and balance out the rear. the real h&r sport isn't a half bad spring, they just have the habit of making the rear look oddly lower than the front. then again with koni sports you could use the highest perch on the rear shock.

by the way, i take that back on the h tech, it's only a good choice for the integra, the 96-00 civic app is the same weenie rate as the OE sports or pro kit. you could use the integra springs but i duno what height it would put you at

just keep your stock springs until you can afford the ground control conversion. by then you will probably have an idea of what spring rate you want. remember always buy springs by rate, not brand.

bubble eye teggy

yeah i'm a noob here but been doing this for years. honestly the agx struts are fine. as far as a spring like he said h&r is good and also tein. the agx's is the main part that will help you. teins sit kinda low. go with H&R

KCUF_DB8

i got some hks progressive springs for sale

drop is about the same as h&r oe . rides perfectly smooth.

Derek128

I got a 2000 SI
running koni OTS sport w/ ITR spring
very smootth on street(gf approve)


front at the lowest perch
rear at the middle perch

but i'm getting GC tho
ITR spring is abit soft for auto-x & HPDE

racebum

it's not a bad DD combo which is where the h tech idea came from. the drop is moderate and they are based on ITR rates. slightly stiffer than the ITR but only 15% or so. unlike the majority of springs, the integra h techs actually fix the soft rear rates with something like 296lb front and 257lb rear. really balances the car out. factory ITR's are great too if you have access

93_hatchie

What size tires are you running on those wheels? 195/55's or 205/50's?

Derek128

that was 205 50

93_hatchie

OK, so I'm trying to research the ground control conversion. If I want to do this right away, what do I need to buy? Is it just the koni yellows for $450 and the GC coil overs for roughly $350? The GC website has "full kits" for over 1K, thats not what I want, right?

I saw on thmotorsports that they have the gc coil over kit. Would they have the election of springs also? Or do I need to order those from ground control?

racebum

TH will sell the package with any rate you want. now...you just have to figure out what rate you want.

93_hatchie

Ahh yes...that was my next question, lol....

Do you have any good links for explaining spring rates? I want to have a comfortable ride, not too stiff. Something close to stock with the Koni's turned down, but would stiffen up a little if I turn them up.

Also, would it be beneficial to just buy new parts from Honda instead of re-using old parts from the existing suspension components? Looking at other posts, it doesn't look like too many parts get re-used with this setup.

racebum

a ballpark would be to start with 300F and 250R, it's going to be a little more firm than stock but in many ways it will feel better. the car won't bounce and bumps will feel solid. add in a 19-24mm rear sway bar and the car will have a pretty nice balance. if you go above 19mm make sure you reinforce the subframe. i've driven around on these rates for a year now and it's a great street setup. long trips are easy and has similar body roll to say ...a stock corvette in corners. i'm going a little stiffer since i'm dual using for autocross later this summer. now going 450F 400R which might be a big light for the cones but i need something that won't beat me stupid on the roads. it also is not even anywhere close to stockish ride quality

bushing wise. it really depends on what kind of shape yours are in. if your rubber isn't rotting, reuse it. if it is rotting you can get the energy suspension shock bushings for $17 per end off amazon.

TunerN00b

2 things:

1) Adjusting the shock has nothing at all to do with the spring, or its rate. The suspension is as stiff as the spring rates determine, and all you can do is adjust the shock to a correct damping setting, or not. This is especially true with a shock that only adjusts rebound and not bump damping, like a Koni Sport. I don't think the Koni Str.t are adjustable either.

2) Call GC and discuss your needs. They will recommend rates based on your needs and car, and can give a much better recommendation than than your random forum browser.

Whats Up DOHC

Those are some stupid high rates for the Integra. Wow. The Accord S-Techs are like 246/162

racebum

tein seems to go 20ish% over factory. in the case of the integra, they are based on the ITR rates

93_hatchie

I found this info on a bunch of other forums:

"Heres a list of spring rates for Civics

For 96-00 Civics (EJ6-8 and EM1 chassis codes)
96-00 EX - 165F/80R (P/P)
99-00 Si (EM1) - 201F/99.8R (P/P)
97, 00-01 ITR - 250F/250R (L/P)
GS-R - 200F/95R (P/P)
CTR - 240/240 (L/P)

H&R OE - 280F/190R (P/P)
Eibach ProKit - 290F/190R (P/P)
Ground Control Coilover - 380F/280R (P/P) (this is the standard kit and the springs are mildly progressive).

P = Progressive
L = Linear"

Looking at the EM1 info (and please excuse my ignorance), would this mean that, for example, the Eibach Pro Kit is almost 50% stiffer than stock, and the GC listed is almost 100% stiffer than stock?

Also, it lists GC as progressive. Is that correct? I would assume that with the variety of custom springs they have, they would all be linear.

BTW, I called GC and asked for a recommendation, they said to go with 380 front/250 rear. I just wish I had something to compare to!

racebum

you kind of do. i would adjust GC's rates slightly though. either go with 300 out back if you do 380 up front or go slightly softer in the front something like the 300-330 range if you keep the 250 out back. i've driven 300/250 as a DD combo for awhile. it's fairly balanced but does lean on understeer. i wouldn't want to promote more than that which the 380/250 combo will. 380/300 or 300ish/250 would give you a better balance. as far as what to compare these rates to? well, the tein h or s tech for the dc2 is extremely similar {they base off ITR rates}. as for a couple other comments you made. normally the pro kit if 10-20% stiffer than stock. it gets kind of strange in honda land though since some spring makers base rates off other models. civic/teg etc. it might seem like a lot going over 100% stiffer out back and you will notice it, but, with a quality shock and a decent ride height. 2 finger gap, or at least 1, you can have a ride that's in control and if anything will feel improved since you won't have body flop. set your konis in the middle of the adjustment range which is one full turn from either direction since they allow two turns of adjustment. see how it feels there and fine tune. i tried a few places with this same combo & wound up at half. full soft allows too much bounce and roll. full firm is a little over damped @ 300/250

kristo

Bringing this back up, I would like to know this also.

Are GC springs 'mildly progressive', or is this just so for their standard rates?

dandaman15

I always thought they were a regular coilover spring and would be linear but I am in for results also.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

hmmm it appears that the standard kit springs might have ONE coil spaced closer than the rest, but trust me when I say that such a progressive rate is not noticeable at all. This was what I used to have on my front Koni shocks.



Here are my rear springs, which were regular ERS 450 lb/in springs, and you can see how those are straight linear springs.