BigWorm85

While installing an inverted tie rod setup on my dc5, i ran into a slight issue. the manufacturer of the tie rod end appears to have not taken into account the varying thickness of different steering arms from different companies. The placement of the hole for the cotter pin now is covered up by the lower nut on the assembly. There is enough room to place a second nut to function as a jam nut. my question then is does the jam nut serve as enough of a physical lock to prevent the assembly from coming loose without having a cotter pin in place? i've looked into using a traditional castle nut, but the hole for the pin would still be covered by the nut. here is a picture to illustrate setup.



the first nut is covering the hole that the cotter pin would normally occupy. it is difficult to see it, but there is about 1.5 threads sticking out from the bottom jam nut.

so bottom line: is this safe or unsafe to rely on a jam nut instead of a cotter pin before i go out driving on it.

thanks.

Tyson

ive wondered to myself whats so special about those balljoints that it requires a castle nut/cotter pin in the first place.

i suppose in the end its the freely rotating design of the balljoint stud. the job of the cotter pin is to lock it in place, physically, without relying on elastic tension of the stetching stud.

so as for if the locking jamnut idea would work. well, i guess it does, since its providing tension between the two nuts, and not the arm and nut. its better than nothing.

i would be skeptical in the long run tho.

DrSeuss

How about a stop nut (either nylon or metal)? I recently helped a friend install outer tie rods and they came with a nylon style stop nut.

BigWorm85

see, i was kinda wondering the same thing. The nut that comes on there from the factory is not in contact with the cotter pin. they don't use a castle nut, just a standard nut. the cotter pin appears to be a safety feature so that in the event the nut were to come loose, the pin would prevent the nut from coming all the way off and the steering arm from coming totally loose. I just wonder if a jam nut would be enough to maintain safety.

A stover nut or a nylon lock nut could also provide security, but i don't know how those compare to the jam nut system.

Or should i take these back and not settle for anything less than a conventional castle nut / cotter pin setup.. hmmm...

CRX Lee

I would think that the jam nut should be fine. My first thought was fresh nyloc shoucl be fine as well but the disadvantage is that the nylon could be tight enough during installation that it might create more resistance than the drag inherent in the ball joint can take. in tightening a tight nyloc, you might find yourself spinning the entire nut and stud within the ball socket instead of the nut onto the stud.

stumpyf4

Why is there a nut on the top side of the tie rod end? Remove that and your probably have enough thread to use your castle nut.

If you choose to do the jam nut, I would safety wire it. Vibration has a tendency to loose stuff you thought was tight.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think that the jam nut should be fine. My first thought was fresh nyloc shoucl be fine as well but the disadvantage is that the nylon could be tight enough during installation that it might create more resistance than the drag inherent in the ball joint can take. in tightening a tight nyloc, you might find yourself spinning the entire nut and stud within the ball socket instead of the nut onto the stud.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point about not using a nylon locking nut.

thinking more along that lines, its probably why it has a castle nut /cotter pin in the first place. its not supposed to be torque down heavily, and cant have any extra resistance. the other suspension bolts do indeed have nylon buttons in the OEM bolts. you couldnt do that with a balljoint.

BigWorm85

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

good point about not using a nylon locking nut.

thinking more along that lines, its probably why it has a castle nut /cotter pin in the first place. its not supposed to be torque down heavily, and cant have any extra resistance. the other suspension bolts do indeed have nylon buttons in the OEM bolts. you couldnt do that with a balljoint.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I checked to see how torquing it down to varying levels would effect the movement of the heim joint. The misalignment spacers seem to be bottoming out on each other. the spherical bearing retains smooth movement at all reasonable levels of torque.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stumpyf4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why is there a nut on the top side of the tie rod end? Remove that and your probably have enough thread to use your castle nut.

If you choose to do the jam nut, I would safety wire it. Vibration has a tendency to loose stuff you thought was tight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm going to double check it tomorrow, the nut is doing two things i think. It is holding the bolt in place against the strut arm. The top side of the strut arm has a taper and the bolt is tapered to match. I think the second purpose the nut serves is to space the rod end assembly away from the strut arm. i'll try cycling the suspension tomorrow without that nut to see if it would still have adequate clearance. Could you further elaborate on how one would safety wire the jam nut assembly?