B_Swapped93

realistically am I going to get any better sheer stopping power then my current set up of itr brakes and hawk "blues". I'm aware of contributing mods such as spring rates tires/width all that, 225 AD08R's are being used debating using NT01's but not 100%.



about the car.

Mid 340's whp wise
Time attack
aero/ 1,600mm Voltex wing etc.

FlewByU352

Dynalite are awful IMO. ITR brakes are much stronger and if you go Wilwood Superlite 4 piston or DynaPro 6 piston.

B_Swapped93

couldn't find "superlite 4 piston" for integra application, looked at the 6 piston would there be a night and day diff and could I use hawk pads on them?. i'm guessing stop techs's bbk isn't the best. car is a 5lug so not sure if that affects anything bracket wise as the 6 piston said not compatable with type R.

TPB

Are you having issues with your current set up? Depending on where you're planning on running (track) and duration of sessions, you might just consider switch to another pad compound since the ITR brakes are great as they are.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I doubt you need anything better than ITR brakes. Has the car been on track yet with said setup?

B_Swapped93

I'd just like more "bite" my rotors are just oem blanks an I have a ITR booster/MC. blues are pretty damn good lol but I'm just wondering if i'll see a night and day diff using a 6 piston set up as mentioned.





the brake set up came with the car and along with the stock jdm b18cR, so just "that" I just want more bite since ill be running AD08R's in 225 I'm sure I could increase the stopping distance without locking the wheels up.



the car has no abs as its an "integra rs"

B serious

iTrader: (1)

You want MORE bite than hawk "blue" pads? Without ABS. On street tires?

You should go to the track before you buy anything. I think you're going to have a hard time modulating the brakes as-is. Even if you switch to NT01's

Hawks were always too bitey for me. After using Carbotechs...I'd have a hard time over the first few laps getting used to Hawks.

Is the car supercharged? How much does it weigh?

Libertariat

Are you having trouble now?

That's a lot of WHP. Nittos would absolutely be a downgrade (old tech). I'd probably switch to the BFG rival or something a bit more dedicated and see how it does on the track before playing with the brakes too much.

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iTrader: (1)

NT01's are R comps....and are faster than Rivals. You're thinking NT05.

speedjunkie_g35

My itr setup stops my r6's just fine with over 300 whp

B_Swapped93

what pads tho?



also surly that 6 piston has considerably more bite then the single of the ITR. yes/no? would still like to know

speedjunkie_g35

Hps

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iTrader: (1)

6 piston would have more clamping power because of the increase in output piston area. The number of pistons isn't the factor in clamping force. Its the additonal piston area.

A larger number of pistons, however, allows for spreading the load more evenly over larger pads.

My 4 piston BBK on my TSX has a LOT more clamping power. Since the piston area isn't overly big at the same time...pedal feel is still good with the stock MC.

But...why? It sounds like you haven't got this car on track yet. Anything with more bite than what you have will make it incredibly difficult to modulate brakes. Your brakes currently will probably be difficult to modulate with street tires. Using that much more piston area will make your pedal feel too touchy and vague at the same time. Like using ITR brakes with a CX MC.

Is your car supercharged or turbocharged? Aero? Alignment settings?

B_Swapped93

thanks for the explanation, clears things up a bit, no I never said I had I'd like too. Touchy is what I want, have you driven a GD3 FIT? literally the most sensitive brakes ever I like that and that's on **** all seasons. my choice would be 205 or 225 ADO8-R's, turbo'd a PTE 5858 ramhorn etc mid 340whp. Aero for now is just a 5.25ft wide Voltex wing with 275mm risers and gurney flap, I'm still messing with aero power was first.

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iTrader: (1)

Idk man. Track it how you have it first. I found that even HP+ on my ITR made it a little weird to heel/toe until I really got used to it. I like bitey pads on the street too. I use bitey pads on my DD.

But linear is nice at the track. I use Carbotechs at the track because the pedal feel is predictable and they never fade.

I think you'll be locking up tires with stock ITR brakes and Hawk Blues. Maybe your rotors/pads need to be re-bedded or something if you're thinking they're not grabby enough.

wascly

It sounds like you are not heating up your pads enough. When I initially switched from the HPS to the HP+ I had the same issue until my second 20 min track session. The pads were actually way worse at first, I regretted my choice and almost switched them back out. Then holy crap they bit hard and I'm glad I left them in.

I am running a basic 200whp LS/Vtec in an RS chassis DC with ITR Calipers, 11" Centric High Carbon Cryo rotors, 15/16" MC, braided lines, and 225 wide R888s. I was even able to lock up the wheels for a split second as I was getting used to all this new found stopping power. I am upping to Hoosier R6s next year.

Also make sure you have an almost comparable pad in the rear. I usually run one step less aggressive back there (HPS now) only because don't get as hot so you won't be using the pad like it is designed.

I do wish that PFC made ITR shaped pads in their race compounds. I run the 08 endurance compound with their Direct Drive CSL rotors on my M3 and they put the Hawks (HT-10) to shame. I even had to step down from the 11 compound as they were too much for me and eating rotors like crazy. Granted the car weighs 800 lbs more than my Integra so there are some differences.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

You don't want "almost the same compound" in the back.

There's a big difference in HPS vs HP+. HP+/HPS combo works because the HPS is so much less agressive than the HP+. If it weren't, you'd be locking up the back wheels.

wascly

That makes sense. There are also other factors to take into consideration as well like pressure biasing and heat rates. Heat plays a big part in race compounds ability to bite. That's why they are not recommended on the street. I know plenty of people (instructors) that run the same race compound front and rear and they swap out to a street compound before heading back home if they didn't trailer their car to the track.

So far I have found the HP+ to be a great dual purpose pad on a lightweight car. I can fade the HPS on the first 20 min session now and my car only weighs 2350 with me in it. I don't remember what my temp deltas were from front to back but they are now suited to the pads optimal operating range.

If you're on a budget, get an IR thermometer to take rotor and caliper readings for a good idea of what temps you are reaching. This can help a great deal in choosing the right pads for your application and driving style.

B_Swapped93

hmm didn't even think that they needed to be hot, i have "blues" are they similar to HP+ and need to be hot to really bite?. i just drive this car around town not going above 60kph(35mph), or just on the highway at 80(45mph) where i get the od stop light. The rotors are near new OEM blanks the calipers are all nice and clean/greased etc, i just had **** tires it came with but have some good ones(rivals) left from my old tegg. I'm still planning on a R comp tires tho, in essence my next question is is there something more "bitey" then hawk blues?. I may just do that 6P upgrade and get the wildwood MC while im at it currently have an ITR one. i don't know what the rears are i'll probs throw some HP+'s on them.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Its your car man. I wouldn't do what you're thinking. But if you're doing it for street cred and looks, more power to you. But several people who actually track their cars have weighed in with the same opinion.

If you walked into a place and told them you planned on using AD08R street tires on a light car with no ABS and said you wanted a pad with MORE bite than a Blue...they'd look at you sideways.

And yes. Race pads normally have to be hot and have a film layer to work properly. Hawks Blues are metallic...so once they come up to temp, they will bite harder...and then the torque curve will level out as much as its going to as they get bedded in and hit the right temp window.

There are some other race pads that have MORE (way too much) bite when they're dead cold...and then settle into a nice torque range when filmed up. That's why most people don't roll around on race pads. It chews up pads and rotors very fast. Race pads need to ride on film to work as advertised...which occurs when you get them hot enough to bed into the rotor.

If you want a pad that bites more on the street...use a HP+. It will also chew up rotors amd wear fast during street driving...and its an AWFUL street pad. But it may give you the feel you're after.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

If people use the same compound front and back, its usually some sort of intermediate pad. Like HP+ or Stoptech SP....or even like a Carbotech XP8 on a ~ 50/50 weight RWD car (Miata, S2000, BMW 3 series).

You don't see too many civic or integra people using the same compound all around unless its absolutely a street pad like the HPS. Your rear brakes aren't doing much on those cars...and you kind of want to keep it that way.

Calif_Kid

I've always heard that Hawk Blues have a tendency to eat rotors, and the brake dust causes rust spots once it gets wet, plus that there are newer/better compounds that Hawk carries. On my car (2000 Civic hatch race car), with ITR front brakes, I used to use Carbotech XP10 pads in the front, and Carbotech AX6 (autocross) in the rear. I eventually switched to Raybestos ST43 pads for the front, and as they seemed to have more bite than the XP10's, I switched to Carbotech XP8 for the rear. The Carbotech pads are supposed to be pretty easy on the rotors, and the brake dust doesn't rust like the Hawk Blues. The Carbotech compounds are listed at Carbotech Performance Brakes. They don't recommend many of their pads for street use, but you might try the XP10 front and AX6 rear, but that would need to be on new/cleaned rotors. You might want to give Carbotech a call and discuss your car, and see what they recommend.

The other thing, is that if you're actually doing Time Attack, and are driving the car really hard (with 340whp), that you might start having fade issues where brake ducts might be needed, but if you're not driving that hard, then they may not be needed. If you're tracking the car, then at least make sure that the brake fluid is fresh, and is high temp like Motul RBF600 etc.. Also, since you already have that wing, then you might want to look into adding a splitter for your track days. - Jim

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iTrader: (1)

Yes, Hawks do eat rotors more than some other pads and there are better hawk compounds out there than the old Blue pads. But...all the DTC pads are going to be race/track compounds, which don't do well on the street.

Any metallic pad will tend to etch into wheels and give them that rusty look. Even the HP+ does this.

Blues will feel like stepping on greased bricks in cold temps. They won't want to stop the car at all. If you're just driving around on the street with race pads...the result won't be good.

A race or track compound pad from any manufacturer is going to be shitty on the street. Even Carbotechs eat up your rotors if they're not riding on their film. The film goes away in about 50 street miles. By the time I get back from the track...any Carbotech compound I have used are already screaming and I can feel them clawing at the rotors.

XP8's are *somewhat* ok on the street. But...not really.

I doubt that the car in question needs anything more than XP8's up front and AX6 or HPS out back. On a long track, I could see the need for XP10's up front.

I am a huge fan of Carbotech pads.

B_Swapped93

RBF600 will be used 100% the hawk blue came with the car and before that I had hps on my gsr, I was not impressed at all by the hps...my fit had more bite on OEM pads. That's beside the point tho, I have some HP+ that came new in the box but I'll look into xp10's. I'm fine with switching pads but I do want that same hard bite feel ALL the time or as close as I can get, the blue do put an insane amount of dust on the wheels and car but I'm ok with that. Thanks both of you for the detailed responses, again never knew they had to be hot/warm to really bite always though it was the opposite.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Hawk blues have to be hot to bite down. But...not all pads. Carbotechs feel like stopping a bike with soda on the wheels when they're non-filmed/cold. Instant crazy *** bite. Way too much torque. They're also as loud as freight trains.

If you have boxes and boxes of perfectly good pads, just use those. Make the switch to HP+ and you'll have better cold bite.