kixcrx

i just got new tires like 3 months ago and already they are wasted from the inside. And my car is lowered what will i have to do or buy to fix this problem, to stop wasting my tire like this.

Tyson

get an alignment like you should have done after you lowered your car. and after buying new tires.

kixcrx

the alignment should fix the problem because my car still drives strait and steering wheel is strait also

Tyson

thats because both sides are equally out of spec after lowering.

get an alignment.

kixcrx

about how much would an alignment cost

Tyson

$60-90

firestone has lifetime alignment service for $160. valid at any firestone location.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Will Firestone always allow that lifetime alignment on lowered cars?

But yeah like Tyson said, an alignment is always a must any time ride height is changed. Don't get it done with the worn tires on there, though, as that will throw the readings out of whack somewhat.

doubleshotz

If the wear isn't too bad, I would rotate them(if not using directional tires) and get an alignment ASAP.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will Firestone always allow that lifetime alignment on lowered cars?</TD></TR></TABLE>
From my experience, it depends on location.
I had different experience in different states.

Like Honda-Tech,
some whine, bitch, and bullshit, others are strictly business.

Regardless, they all eventually DID get the alignment done.

PIC Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will Firestone always allow that lifetime alignment on lowered cars?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I haven't had a problem with that. I seem to remember paying $140 about a year ago. Sometimes they don't do the best job but if I hound them, they take care of it.

robbieshonda

I have the lifetime alighnment at firestone. It cost me 120 and Ive been in there quite a bit. dont matter if the car is lowered or not. Most people set the slam and dont adjust it.

ssm hatch

Don't forget to get at least a rear camber kit before you get an alignment, so it will be perfect.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ssm hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget to get at least a rear camber kit before you get an alignment, so it will be perfect.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont agree. maybe for a EK. but not necessary at all.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ssm hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget to get at least a rear camber kit before you get an alignment, so it will be perfect.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What's your definition of perfect? I like some negative camber all around, that's perfect for me.

ssm hatch

If you want your tires to last as long as possible, toe and camber should be at 0. That's what I meant by "perfect". If you're talking about a performance alignment, then that's a different story. To get the best cornering ability out of a car, the front camber needs to be more than the rear. If the rear has more camber, that results in more understeer.

Tyson

either way, you dont need to bother with a camber kit to prevent the extreme uneven tire wear associated with lowering a car.

you need an alignment after lowering.

SlapSmak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ssm hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want your tires to last as long as possible, toe and camber should be at 0. That's what I meant by "perfect". If you're talking about a performance alignment, then that's a different story. To get the best cornering ability out of a car, the front camber needs to be more than the rear. If the rear has more camber, that results in more understeer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is actually a pretty inacurate statement.
You cound have -3 degrees up front, -2 in the rear, disconnect the front sway bar and have a big *** 22mm bar on the rear and get shitloads of oversteer. Cornering ability is dictated (partially) by camber, but weight bias and sway bar size play a large part in the oversteer/understeer calculation. As an example: change nothing on a DC GSR and add a Type R rear sway...understeer gone, hello oversteer. many a moron has learned that lesson 15 minutes after the install as they hit the guardrail on their favorite on-ramp. That would be why most car manufacturers induce understeer from the factory, so sally homemaker doesnt kill herself on the way to get banged by her boyfriend while hubby is at work.
The point being, oversteer/understeer is not dictated solely by camber/toe. for most honda's with a lowered suspension, you can run 1-2 deg. neg camber, zero toe in the rear, 1/16" toe OUT in the front and have no adverse tire wear. If you go zero toe, zero camber front and rear, the car will wander all over the place on any road grooves . That is a really bad idea. toe in will give you a more planted drive for a commuter car, but shitty response and turn in, a little toe out 1/16"(front only) will give you a nice turn in on cornering and the car will feel very planted.

The moral of the story, if you want to spend 160$ on an alignment, have some slip plates made for 50$ at a local machine shop, string the car and do it yourself. You will learn alot and save some money. (and you can do your friend's cars and make your money back)

BTW, if you lowered the car with coilovers and didnt have the car corner balanced, it will STILL handle like ****

doubleshotz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlapSmak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, if you lowered the car with coilovers and didnt have the car corner balanced, it will STILL handle like ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good info SlapSmak
I've always wondered if there were shops that would balance the corner weights.

sirg-vtec

Don't forget to rotate your tires every so often after the alignment.

wed3k

my buddy got an alignment from firestone and a couple months later, he got a flat because there was so much inner tire wear, it went straight to the metal cords.

he then paid 1900 for two front tires and changed the suspension to stock.

hes stupid for doing that, id have a talk with firestone first.

japanjay

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlapSmak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

BTW, if you lowered the car with coilovers and didnt have the car corner balanced, it will STILL handle like ****</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have been looking to get this done on my da, but what is the normal price that you would think that shouold be charged for this and where would be a place to get it done at.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlapSmak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, if you lowered the car with coilovers and didnt have the car corner balanced, it will STILL handle like ****</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with pretty much all that you wrote EXCEPT this.

corner balancing helps. but its literally the last thing to think about or do in all suspension adjustment. its not required, its not even significant. certainly not to the extent you stressed it. you can absolutely have a great handling car without even thinking about corner balancing.

toe is certainly a significant factor in handling. camber less so but still significant for all out performance. overall ride heights too. but not corner balancing to adjust crossweights.

it makes me think you have a misconception of what a proper corner balance is...

SlapSmak

my point is this: lets say you install your new coilovers and guess at the ride height for each spring," kewl, 4 threads from the bottom" spin up the collars and do the install. your left front is at a ride height of 4.5", right front at 5", left rear at 5" and right rear at 5.5". your cross weights will be screwed and weight bias will be left front. that may be an extreme, but i have seen it done this way and the car is then aligned. the driver then cant figure out why the car fells completely different turning left than when it turns right.
I know YOU know, as do I what it means to corner balance a car, ie cross weights are as close to equal as possible (LF+RR=RF+LR). It took me 1.5 hours the first time I did my R and we got the weights within 8 pounds. It makes a huge difference on an autocross course, certainly was very significant with my type R.
Lowering springs and shocks are a no brainer to install, all the work is already done for you as the springs (if descent quality) have been matched (ie eibach). Installing ground controls is a little different and takes a little more time to "do it right" as it were.
I have seen many hamfisted coilover installs, some causing damage to suspension components, brake lines, blown shocks, etc. If you want to do the install correctly, goto a professional, or work with someone that knows the right way to do it. It will pay off in the long run, on the street, between the cones, on the track, but mostly in your wallet.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlapSmak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my point is this: lets say you install your new coilovers and guess at the ride height for each spring," kewl, 4 threads from the bottom" spin up the collars and do the install. your left front is at a ride height of 4.5", right front at 5", left rear at 5" and right rear at 5.5". your cross weights will be screwed and weight bias will be left front. </TD></TR></TABLE>

just to be clear to anyone else reading, corner balancing is NOT trying to get ride heights equal!

your example leads to that false assumption.

when in fact after getting cross weights equal, ride heights are WAY off from equal at each corner. since thats NOT THE POINT. you have to purposely make ride heights unequal in order to compensate from the unbalanced weight of the stock car.

most ppl DO set their ride heights equal and leave it that way. which is not half bad. not everyone cares or will feel left turns different that right turns. its not that significant.

its not even close to the same level of importance of getting an alignment to correct toe after lowering or any change in ride height. thats whats most important.

SlapSmak

uncle

EG8steve

I install suspension, corner balance and align cars for a living. all types of cars.

95% of the time once i set the ride height even and a reasonable height based on suspension travel, using a level surface to have the car on, and using control arm pivots or subframe points to measure the height, I put the car on scales and the corner weights are within 2%. Example RF+LR = 48% and LF+RR=52%. In that case corner balancing wouldnt be worth much, but if you cant set the heights fairly even the corner weights could be significantly off and that would not have your car at its best. You cannot change left to right or front to rear weight bias either without physically moving weight around in the car. A level car doesnt mean the corner weight is right, but it often gets the weight balance very close. Ive also corner balanced cars that have been wrecked, old beat up race cars, and only with those do I find significantly uneven heights needed to corner weight balance. Im talking 1/4" differences though 1/2" at the fender wells maybe.

I have customers and friends including myself that drive lowered cars with serious amounts of camber 2.5~3.5 degrees negative and have descent tire wear, but the key there is- cornering fast enough to use the tire! Like other people said the toe is probably whats killing yoru tires more so than just camber. The combination of toe and camber. Or burnouts? Cars that do mostly highway driving will have more adverse tire wear from negative camber. Even then up to 1.5 degrees shouldnt be a problem.

The rear of the car has 37% of the weight on it roughly, rear camber is not a big deal, but you can space your upper control arm with washers to get less negative camber in the rear on the EF, DA, DC, and EG chasis cars.

I find with just lowring, my car didnt have enough camber for autocrossing. I used my camber kits to increase negative camber.

Factory spec for civic/integra is zero toe up front and very slight toe-in in the rear. I think camber is like + or - 1 degree (+1 degree wtf?) A more spirited setup is slight toe out in the front, zero or slight toe in rear. Some people toe out the rear for more rotation.