remoer

well i've done alot of this research during my venture of learning of supension. granted it's not perfect, far from being perfect. but i wanted to add this here for a long time cause it seems that on other forums my info is more important than me as a member. i guess they don't like being called hypocrites. so here's the bit of info i put together so i hope you like it...:

http://www.jdmcivic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68355
but the more and more i thought about it, the more i started remembering my knowledge of rear sway bars. so i started this list of a large precents of the cars from Honda/Acura 1988-present day. the list will start in order as: subcompact, coupe', and sport. this how Honda/Acura/Wiki list them.

HondVX brought some indepth of the 88-95 Civic and 88-01 Integra parts compatability.
http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69445

lapatx 88-91 big brake upgrade info with OEM parts
http://www.d-series.org/forums/showt...ight=big+brake

now this list is really informative for several reasons. for starters honda/acura got it right while the american cars lost out. please let me explain. the reason why i stated this like the rear sway bar. reguardless the thickness, what car, they are the same length from end to end and they bolt up in the same place w/some variation(and i can explain this in a hundred ways). again there different variation to this rule.
rules are made to be bent and broken. thanks to A Spec Racing subframe brace(ASR). i will give you and example:

1988-1991 rear sway bar for Crx/Civic/Integra/Prelude are bent the sameway. so the brackets and bars will bolt up w/no problem other than if you a Crx Dx/HF the don't have the frame under bolts. so you can bolt up the brackets(except the Si have them). there is a thread on how to place those bolt there, on here. oh look wonder who did this? lol.
http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65064

now ASR is in the process in making a subfame brace for these years but theres ways around this problem. you just use a ASR brace from a 92-95 Civic or integra 94-01 then you can bypass the 88-90 sway bar and you then can bolt up a sway bar from 92-95 Civic and 94-01 Integra.

EDIT: 92-95 civic coupe dx did not come w/front or rear sway bar. so i had to make an admendment to this cause a member pointed it out that i had all this info but i didn't have the parts i needed to put into a 5th gen. so here the pics and then the list of what you need afterwards.

for putting a front sway bar in a 92-95 civic coupe.



for installing a front sway bar in the front you need everything from a 92-95 Ex/ a 4dr sdn on both side. minus 13, 14 and 17. you don't need these. whats cool ist everything else is usally all together already.

putting a rear sway bar in and 92-95 honda civic, if yours didn't have one



you will need the rear lower control arms, rear sway bar, the sway bar attachmemnts to the frame, and all the do hickys needed. if you see pic #17 and #19. you notice that #17 doesn't have the sway bar eye(hence dx) and #19 has it. now here the cool part you can use the r/lca of any 88-95 honda civic and 90-01 acucra integra. you might have to adjust the camber but i provided the means in how to.

very important fact: you must be very gentle removing the r/lca bolts(#40). especially if you live in the northeast due to rust and rock salt. they tend to sieze and they will snap. i know i've snap them, and you don't need to apply alot of presure. thats why i always have extra r/lca bots. i stay w/6 or more in my tool box. so if you're going to change your lca. heed my words make sure you have extra bolts.

EDIT: well since i have everything you need in swapping and what not, i thought i would add the rear disc converion to complete you supension education. brought to by Rexinre:
http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15258

now we take the EP Civic Hb 2001-2005. their F/R sway bars are intercahnge able w/the RSX. but i'm still seeing if there are other cars that are interchangeable.

EDIT: i want to also state that when the 5th gen of civic started, they made standard the front sway bar hollow. they've been hollow already since 1990 for integra and prelude. now before you ask a 23mm/F hollow sway bar is the same thing as a 19mm/F solid now my understandment on this has to do with weight and the charactistics of the sway bars. while the rear sway bars have stayed solid. the rear adjustable ASR 25mm sway bar bar that is in the early stages right now. it will be with adjustable arms and you can adjust it somewhere in rate similar to a 17mm - 22mm bar. now that's great for the road courser/autoxing ppl. here's the thread that has it w/pics:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1885416&page=1

EDIT: ok i'm going even explain this in a very easy summary. when it comes to the difference between the rear lower control arms(r/lca) between 88-95 Honda and 90-01 Acura it's only an 1/16 of and inch. very small. to fix this you need to do the same thing you do when you have a negative degree camber. the same thing you do w/a rear disc converion. there to simple two option. the first get a camber kit and have someone adjust it or the second the wash trick. here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200607070...earcamber.html


Honda OEM sway bar sizes:

2007-present Fit/Jazz: 21mm/F - n/a/R

1986-1989 All Models - 17mm/F - 17mm/R(the only reason i included it cause it was w/other info)
1988-1991 Crx HF: 17.2mm/F(hollow) - n/a/R
1988-1991 Crx Dx: 18mm/F(solid) - n/a/R
1988-1991 Crx Si: 18mm/F(solid) - 15mm/R
1988-1991 Civic Sdn: 19mm/F(solid) - 15mm/R
1992-1995 Civic Dx: n/a/F - n/a/R(coupes didn't come w/sway bars)
1992-1995 Civic VX: 19mm/F(soild) - n/a/R
1992-1995 Civic EX: 21mm - n/a/R
1992-1995 Civic Si: 21mm/F - 13mm/R (4drs Ex sdn cars did too)
1994-1997 Del Sol DOHC: 24mm/R - 15mm/R
1996-2000 Civic HX: 22mm/F- n/a/R
1996-2000 Civic EX: 22mm/F - n/a/R
1999-2000 Civic Si: 26mm/ - 13mm/R(4drs sdn cars too)
1997-2000 Civic Type R: 26mm/F - 22mm/R
2001-2005 Civic Dx: 25.4mm/F - n/a/R
2001-2005 Civic Ex: 25.4mm/F - 12mm/R
2001-2005 Civic Hx: 25.4mm/F - n/a/R
2001-2005 Civic Lx: 25.4mm/F - n/a/R
2001-2003 Civic Si Hb: 25.4mm/F - 15mm/R
2004-2005 Civic Si Hb: 25.4mm/F - 17mm/R
2006-present Civic Dx: 25.4mm/F - n/a/R
2006-present Civic Lx/Ex: 25.4mm/F - 11.mm
2006-present Civic Si Coupe: 28mm/F(solid) - 17mm/R
2007-present Civic Si Sdn: 27mm/F(solid) - 17mm/R

1986-1989 All Models - 17mm/F - 17mm/R(the only reason i included it cause it was w/other info)
1990-1993 Integra Coupe/3dr: 23mm/F - 14.7mm/R
1990-1993 Integra Sdn 4dr: 23mm/F - 15.9mm/R
1994-1999 Integra RS/LS/GS/SE Coupe: 22mm/F - 12.9mm/R
1994-1999 Integra RS/LS/GS/SE Sdn: 22mm/F - 14mm/R
2000-2001 LS/GS Coupe - 24mm/F - 12.9mm/R
2000-20001 LS/GS Sedan - 24mm/F - 14mm/R
1994-2001 Integra GSR: 24mm/F - 14mm/R
1997-2001 Integra Type R: 24mm - 23mm/R(JDM) -22mm/R(USDM)

2002-2004 RSX: 23mm/F - 19mm/R
2005-2006 RSX:

2004-present TSX: ?mm/F - 15mm/R

1988-1991 Prelude: 25.4/F - 17mm/R(this the only one i question cause i rememeber pulling the both bars and they was the same size as the 90-91 Integra)
1992-1996 prelude: 24.2mm/F - 23mm/R
1997-2001 Prelude: 25.4mm/F - 23.5mm/R

2000-2001 S2000: 28.2mm/F - 27.2mm/R
2002-2003 S2000: 26.5mm/F - 25.5mm/R
2004-present S2000: 26.5mm/F - 25.4mm/R

(I posted the NSX... yeah, like we can afford them and they have a second # i didn't post. if you see the sway bar # you know. it's like 21x3mm.)
1991-1992 NSX: 18.3mm/F 17.5mm/R
1993-1994 NSX-R: 21mm/R - 17.5mm/R
1995-1996 NSX-R: 21mm/F - 19.1mm/R
1997 NSX-S, Zero and Zanardi: 18.3mm/F - 19.1mm/R
1997-2001 NSX: 18.3mm/F - 17.5mm/R
2002-2005 NSX-R: 22.2mm - 17.5mm/R

EDIT: well, here's a chart showing the % of your up grade.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf

EDIT: i think my next adventure is measuring the bar lenghten or sway bar eye to sway bar eye on the r/lca. cause the reason is and i'm going on a hunch. if i'm correct every sway bar 1988-1995 Honda and 1990-2001 Acura are the same lenghten. they all have different end links, bracket sizes but uses the same size r/lca bolt. now what that means is the combo are endless to an extent. the same goes w/the front sway bar too.i know for a fact the the 4th, 5th and i want to say the 6th gen Civics are the same as 3rd and 4th gen prelude. and i gonna boldly say the same for the for all Integra going into the Hondas. oh i want to add the key of making these sway bars mixing and migling are their barckets. you see they used the same bolt but their brackets are made for the bars.
again there still is a bit of research i need to do.

Footnote: the reason i picked these model cars cause these are models we tend to do performance to; they are compact cars(except the Fit it's Subcompact car.). we tend to call them "sport compact cars". the only cars i didn't include was the Accord. for couple of reasons, but the main reason it's a tank. then i would have to include all the Acura(CL, TL, RL) cause they would fall in the same class of mid size cars(not scc). one statement...V.I.P.

remoer

update: well i pick up my 92-95 civic/94-01 integra front sway bar and layed on top of the 88-91 civic/crx/integra swaybar. there will be a clearence issus due to the way the 92-95 civic/94-01 integra sway bar is bent. from first glance yes there will be a problem but i really can't tell till i get under the crx and really see the headache. i'll keep you updated.

EDIT: well here some good info of another thread i made on using ITR r/lca on a 88-95 crx/civic.

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72515

Cornering Problems and Common Solutions from a suspension article.

Springs, antisway bars, and track bars provide significant tuning opportunities. Changing any one of those components can drastically affect understeer (push) and oversteer (loose). Separating a corner into three segments (entrance, middle, and exit) provides three important reference points to analyze what the suspension is doing. For example, a car can be loose in certain parts of the corner and neutral or tight in other parts. Racers tune for good forward bite combined with an overall neutral feel. When you determines suspension changes, you should often goes by these accepted rules of thumb on road courses:

If the car is tight overall, try using a softer front antisway bar, stiffer rear springs, using softer front springs, or a combination of them all.

If the car is loose going into the corner, use a stiffer front antisway bar, a softer rear sway bar, or a combination of these solutions. If the car is loose exiting the corner, use a stiffer front antisway bar, softer rear springs, or a combination of the two.

An antisway bar behaves much like a progressive spring. That in theory, an antisway bar (front or back) should accent the outside tire in the middle of the corner. When it’s right, it will help provide forward bite as the car starts to exit the corner. Be cautions against using stiffer springs in the rear when a stiffer antisway bar is really needed. The stiffer springs don’t help provide as much forward bite, and braking could suffer. if you could up grade your front sway bar too.

well here's the parts list, you need to get from 1997-2001 Acura GSR Type-R.

here's the parts for the front. it's the same, 24mm USDM/JDM.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no



here's the list you will need.

qty#-part#

1 - #2
2 - #3
2 - #4
4 - #5
1 - #17(oem strut brace the part# 74300-SR3-010 it only comes up on the reg GSR)
4 - #27
2 - #30
2 - #31


here's that part list for the rear

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no




here's the list you will need. now these parts are for a rear 22mm USDM not JDM is 23mm.(happy hunting for one)

qty#-part#

1 - #5
2 - #6
2 - #7
2 - #8
2 -#10
2 -#11
4 - #27
2 - #30(you'll also need two nuts for the other side of the lca)
2 - #37
2 - #40(order two extra for the nut on the other side of the lca)



thats why i made it. i guess, plus i was tired having all these damd things on my fav saved individualy. so i thought it will be helpful and a quick place to look for everything at one time. :TU:

EDIT: well talking w/SilverCoupe on another thread, here's his question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCoupe
the 2 c holders that hold the bar to the subframe which one would i have to get if i wanted the 15 mm del sol bar with si links

well if you have a 13mm rear sway bar and upgrading to a 14mm i really don't feel you need new bushing brackets but you will need the bushing. now if you're going from a 13mm to a 15mm you might but the difference between 1mm to 2mm is very small. i feel it's a judgement call or more of the bushing bracket stay the same just the inside diameter of the bushing, to fit to the bracket. when it's the small.

EDIT: thanks to Tyson on honda-tech hit me with a jewel of info. hollow sway bar vs solid sway bar.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bul...%20Swaybar.pdf

remoer

EDIT: Update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crooked muffler
can I just modify my stock LCA to fit an Si rear sway bar???
i hav an 89 dx sdn

if you're referring to your rlca it's alittle more tricky. for starters the rlca are an even swap, no problem. but the problem with non si 88-91 crx/civic is that they don't have the body mounts for the sway b ar to bolt up. so there's two ways of making in work.

the first is this way:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65064

and the second well my favorite, and i haven't gone around in doing it:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76690

buy an OBX 92-00 19mm sway bar. now the distance between the rlca subframe bolts are the same between 88-00 civic/crx and 88-01 integra. with the 88-91 civic/crx being like 1/32" colser, never the less a quick way in fixing this is reem the a **** hair bigger. i hope you understand what i ment. now since but the link i show above you will see that the surface of the subframe are different, there are several ways of fixinng this. first the easy way is washers. or the second is is used something like this.




this was taken from this link.
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=692

now i want to explain about using this method, before any idiot starts with the but what about the subframe rip.

the reason why this way is a bit more reliable, is cause of the tie rod/sub frame brace of the obx. granted it's not the asr and i will never stated that either, but it's half the money and this will help you for later on if you want to upgrade for the asr. now if you seen the the back of the obx sway bar brace you'll see that if you put some wahers on the top sway bar bracket eye bolt like the bottom it'll be flush.

but the main reason i like this is that you have to drill into the subframe brace to make the sway bar bracket bolt go thru the sub frame. there's no guessing or what not everything is line up neatly. and you can **** up the drilling if you measre it correctly(hence later on down the road when you want to up grade the hole are there and all you have to do is drill the last bolt hole to make the asr work.)

now i want to stated this i am not nor claim to be a suspension guru as ppl try to say. the only reason i know alot of this swaping of the suspension is i spend the last 2 semi-years just doning tons of reading, research and measuring of parts to make sure they work on my build.

so take my advice with a grain of salt or not and go spend money. i've been flame before by a suspension guru about my tuning. and what i said ti him as i will say to you instead of flaming for giving out wrong info. educate me on what i'm doing wrong. i never went to school for this. just educated online.

remo

lol, thanks guys.
i think my next adventure is measuring the bar lenghten or sway bar eye to sway bar eye on the r/lca. cause the reason is and i'm going on a hunch. if i'm correct every sway bar 1988-1995 Honda and 1990-2001 Acura are the same lenghten. they all have different end links, bracket sizes but uses the same size r/lca bolt. now what that means is the combo are endless to an extent. the same goes w/the front sway bar too.i know for a fact the the 4th, 5th and i want to say the 6th gen Civics are the same as 3rd and 4th gen prelude. and i gonna boldly say the same for the for all Integra going into the Hondas. oh i want to add the key of making these sway bars mixing and migling are their barckets. you see they used the same bolt but their brackets are made for the bars.
again there still is a bit of research i need to do.

Civichatch2k

Great info! do you know if there is any information on the 90 civic hatch SIR model for sway bar diameters?

I have a friend who is trying to upgrade/replace bushings for his suspension and one of our questions is what size to order for the front sway bar bushings.

We think it is a 18 or 19mm.

Let me know.

Nick

MilanoRedDC2

ITR 25mm front bar has horizontal end link holes as opposed to the vertical mounting holes pictured above. How is the mounting of the bar solved?

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

The USDM ITR and GS-R share the same 24mm front bar with vertical mounting holes on the ends, #2 in the pic above.

acrihfield111

So does this apply if you are going from a 91 Civic DX into a 90 Integra GS?