94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

For the record, yes I have searched....I probably spent a good 8 hrs searching so far. I'll tell you what I have, and my goals, and please feel free to chime in. Was putting together a turbo kit (still am) but the suspension has become a priority now.

CAR:

1994 Civic Cx Hatchback
b18c1 swap
Full weight with interior, sound deadending, etc.


CURRENT SUSPENSION:

Function Form Type IIs (I believe they come as 12k front / 8k rear)
No Sway Bars
15" rims

GOAL:

Car never ever sees the track. Daily driver - I drive 300 miles / week. Want a smooth ride, but can be stiffer than stock and I'm used to driving cars with stiffer suspension - had a Mustang with H&R Race springs / Bilsteins. I've been driving on these Function Form II 12k/8k (672 / 448) springs for almost 2 years and they are rough (for me) for a daily driver...on a track I could see where there would be no issues whatsoever, or even for a weekend car...but this is a daily driver. My goal is to build more of a daily driver car with comforts such as sound deadening, stereo, A/C. I will eventually have a semi-built motor with a turbo kit (turbo kit is 80% complete as of now) aiming around 300-400 HP. I'm essentially trying to replicate a higher end sports car for under $10k which I see doable with the hatchbacks (someday try to convert to AWD). I want something that I can drive around comfortably but still be performance oriented. Currently the car's fender sits 1/2" off the tire so its nearly flush - looks good, but with daily driver in mind I'm planning on raising it up when I get new coilovers so that there is a ~1.5"-2" gap which will help with bottoming out and slamming the bumper into curbs.

SPRING RATES

I would use the typical Koni Yellow / GC kit. From my investigation so far, for a smooth ride it looks like I need to be around...

Front: 200-350 in/lbs
Rear: 200-400 in/lbs

SWAY BARS

What I would like to do is go as soft a spring as possible and use sway bars to increase roll stiffness as from my understanding it makes for an improved ride:

Front sway bar: OEM GSR
Rear sway bar: OEM ITR (not sure which size though)

I read that the Type-R spring rates for the Integra were factory rated at around 247 f 247 r, so I figured staying around that 250/250 with sway bars is probably the stiffest I'd want to go with the lighter hatchback body. Should I even go softer with large sway bars?

So the plan so far is to use 250/250 with both front and rear sway bars.

If I install this and its a little too stiff could I dial it back with the Koni's on full soft setting?

Thanks in advance for any help or direction here...Hopefully I provided enough information for a clear answer.

EKSedAndy

How low do you plan on going? I have OTS rate Ground Controls with Koni red struts in an EK, sitting about one finger of gap, 22mm front sway bar, and under hard cornering I rub in the front. I'm upgrading over the winter to a stiffer setup to avoid this.

Just something to keep in mind. If you don't want to go too low then you should be OK, but the softer you go the more rubbing you'll get over bumps and hard cornering. Personally I think 250/250 is too soft, but stiffness is a very relative thing.

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Thx for your reply.

Yes I'm currently at 1 finger space between fender/tire, but planning on raising it to 1.5"/2" or around 3 finger spacing. Again, I want 100% hassle free daily driver experience where it's like having a new hassle free car. I'm building g it this way so that I don't end up like many others that just sell their project cars...I want it reliable and for all intents and purposes "normal", but with performance suspension equivalent to or slightly stiffer than a type-r, and with 300-400 HP, and quiet with sound deadening. I'm taking all the squeaks/rattles out of the car, etc. Trying to make the car nice. So yeah somewhere in that 250/250 range but I'm not sure exactly how the Sway bars play a role with regards to how much I can lower spring rates. For example, perhaps 250/200 will be good with the 98' spec type r rear sway bar, I'm not sure ... Thanks.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

What size tire are you running with said gap? FWIW, hub center to fender lip is a much more portable/reliable number since it only takes into consideration the position of the suspension.

Anyway, it sounds like you're pretty reasonably lowered, but still too low to run ITR rates. The ITR was only very slightly lower than a typical integra... 10mm iirc. The good news is that OTS Ground Control rates will bet you a pretty decent ride at that height. I would recommend you spring for the top hats too, at least in the front. Pair with Koni Sports and enjoy.

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Tire size = 205-50-15

I don't want to be too low honestly, just a 1" drop is good - 100% daily driver, no desire to bottom out or have a harsh ride. I think the OTS Ground Control at 380 F rate will be too stiff especially with sway bars. If only lowering 1" there is no need for top hats correct?

egsleepercivic

380 is fine in the front, in the rear go with 300 or less for comfort

I run 380\380 but i don't daily it

93 si with gsr front and rear sways

I had 380\330 on a 92si with same sways and it was good for dd but you might want a little less in the rear for extra comfort

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Koni/Gc is as nice or as shitty as the user makes it.

If you're lowering a max of about 1.5", then 250/250 would be a very nice setup for comfort. Maybe 350/250 wouldn't be bad either. Keeping the spring rates front biased provides better ride quality than rear biasing.

You could also go for a refined and comfortable set of coilovers like H&R Street Performance or KW's ST line. The prices are in line with Koni/GC and they'll also last forever and ride like silk. The advantage being that the rates and damping pre-set by people who know a shitload of **** about suspension tuning. Just don't slam it like a fool.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

^that last paragraph there. If you're ally want something that's going to hit all the marks, you're going to to have to look past all the budget setups like Koni/GC, progress, etc... But they can be made to work pretty well otherwise.

Have you considered just using a set of ITR springs and lowering the perches on a set of Koni Sports? The combo works really well and will put you about where you want to be stiffness wise. The extra damping from the Konis does a lot for the feel of the car.

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for that feedback. Budget probably around $800-1000, but I hadn't really considered the regular ITR springs, and that may work actually...probably save $300 or so I'd guess. Thanks for the help...this does help.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

ITR springs with Konis is a very good idea. Or.... I believe you can buy an entire JDM ITR setup with 5 lug brakes and shocks/springs for around $900. Sell the stuff you don't use. Pretty much a free suspension setup.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

Could you go into more detail here? You just kinda bashed GC/Koni setups as "budget" and then left it at that. Didn't explain your reason or give a better option and why...

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Koni/GC is a budget setup. It just happens to be versatile and high quality. It lacks a few features...but for the price, its excellent. Versatility meaning you can use it in so many different ways. Kind of like a 'jack of all trades and a king of none' situation.

My take on the statement is that to get super smooth ride quality, maybe a LESS versatile system that is more focused is better. ST is a "budget" setup as well. But it rides so well because it only needs to do 1 or 2 things really well.

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

I figure the ITR springs (or spring rate) that come OEM stock allow the car to pull .92 on the skid pad, so a lighter EG Hatch with around the same stiffness springs, with better tires (205/50/15), and better shocks (Koni yellow) should be better than .92 on the skidpad....If I can accomplish something around .95 then Ill have nothing to complain about.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't quite work like that.

The ITR had big sway bars, a MUCH better chassis, high performance tires, and (the biggest difference) a LSD to make all that happen.

Skidpad tests also don't tell you all that much.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

So what is YOUR suggestion on a super smooth NON budget/versatile setup?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

KW Variant 2 Coilovers - Lightning Motorsports - Made with bits of real lightning, so you know it's good !

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Don't get me wrong... I love my Konis, and I have another worn out set that I'm planning to have custom rebuilt for the project car. The bang for the buck is off the charts with them, but they are a basic twin tube budget shock and my expectations of them are a bit lower. In my opinion they could use a bit more high speed damping, even with the low-ish rates that I'm running. The valving just isn't as on point as it is going to be with a properly engineered complete setup, but that is to be expected.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

Never heard of those but that isn't saying much.

I was happy with the last set of GC/Koni I had. I had OTS spring rates and I could go anywhere from stock type ride to very stiff with a couple **** turns. IMO handling was extremely nice too. Not sure what else you could really ask for.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

There's a lot more you could ask for. You're not asking for much if you just need it to ride OK and be adjustable.

Its a $800 setup. Its definitely a budget suspension system. I'm not saying its not good. But it has quite a few limitations, off the shelf. They can be re-valved to be more focused.

There's nothing wrong with a budget setup if it works well in most situations. Some people just want something more focused or capable for THEIR type of use.

Your question about a non budget, non versatile, smooth riding coilover is difficult to answer, though. Usually, street coilovers are inexpensive.

KW V1 or V2 would likely meet that criteria. Bilstein PSS9's are some of my favorite street coilovers. None of those are expensive....but I wouldn't say they're "budget". And again, KW's ST line is great for comfort...and they're fairly inexpensive and are very high quality.

There are coilovers that can be comfortable on track AND on the street right out of the box. Thats where you get a semi-expensive system ($2500-4000ish). Moton Club sport, HVT, KW clubsport/V3 (depending on the car), Eibach Multipro R2, Ohlins R&T, etc. These are sometimes customizable as well. But you should really know what you're doing before you do that. I have modified KW V3's on my S2000 for track use. Setup is a little complex.

When you get into real race systems for $5k ++++ like JRZ, Penske, Moton race, KW comp, custom HVT's, etc, you need to have a lot of expertise behind the setup....and they may not be all that streetable.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

Why does he need $2,500-5,000++++++++ as you say, coilovers when he has clearly stated his goals. Here I will list them if you missed it...

Stay with me here...now reading back through the bold text can you explain why GC/Koni setup wouldn't be best for his goals? What will an extra $1,700+++++++++++ get him over the GC/Koni "budget" setup?

aw614

bilstein sport/hd + ITR springs or GC coils? Although not many people seem to use bilsteins they are a monotube shock, I have found I never really felt the need to adjust my shocks with the setup.

I've been happy with the ITR springs/bilstein sport combo, doesn't lower the car much even on the lowest perch, but gives off a "stock" look to it which I wanted.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

YOU asked for an example of a "non-budget" setup and B and I both replied with examples. No one said OP wouldn't be okay with Koni/GC, you're reading between the lines too much if you think that. Not considering the higher end stuff in the discussion is not looking at the whole picture though.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

What is the point in mentioning $5,000 setup? I assumed you two had something to contribute to THIS thread, not coilovers in general. My mistake there

I'm all for learning here as I'm in the same boat as the OP and I'm looking at Koni/GC. I have heard opinions here but have seen no reason behind them that relates to this thread.

Another I'm looking at http://www.clubintegra.com/store/fun...ers_mp245.html

https://honda-tech.com/suspension-br...-take-2507755/

donut.

I agree. I'm not familiar with the HD, but I just picked up and installed some Bilstein B8's (I believe the B6's are for non-ITR?) on my daily and I'm pretty happy with them. They're cheaper than Koni off the bat, and they're just as if not more customizable.

Picked them up for $350 right here in the classifieds. You guys snoozed

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I wanted to do 'steins on the daily but konis just ended up being more readily available and were a safer bet.