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Old 04-06-2012, 11:32 PM   #1
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Default BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integras

I'm BrakeExpert and I like brakes. I've built several different setups, even invented some. And though this thread will not discuss brake theory, this will give a lot of OEM brake upgrades.There are many aftermarket brake upgrades, but also a lot of OEM ones, pulling brakes from other Honda/Acura cars and modifying them to fit. This gives you OEM reliability and OEM style replacement parts, which saves a lot of cost and headache. I am going to post my big-*** thread that was posted in the autocross and EK/EG forum. These setups were designed for the EK civic which came with either 9.5" or 10.3" brakes, and these setups can be directly translated to 88-00 Civics and 90-01 Integras. Setups refering to the "DX civics" with the 9.5" brakes work on all 88-00 Civics with the stock 9.5" brakes, and setups refering to the "EX or Si brakes" will translate to all 88-00 Civics with 10.3" stock brakes and all 90-01 Integras except the 5 lug Type-R versions.

-- (96-00 Honda Civic) Brake Upgrades --
(and Information on all 88-00 Civics / 90-01 Integras)



FRONT BRAKES OF YOUR 96-00 CIVIC
Prelude
Okay, there are too many questions, and I see too many people giving WRONG answers. Here I have collected brake setup information based on fact, experience, and no, I don’t accept a setup as proof without a picture of it. I will list interchangeable parts, and talk about what myths are real, and which are not.
For these upgrades, I will refer to SIMILAR, not EXACT parts. Meaning the part may not be 100% identical, but has all of the same characteristics to make it interchangeable, and function the same. Such is the case with 95 Civic EX front knuckles and 95 Integra GS front knuckles. May not be the same part number, but the dimensions make it interchangable 100%. Some other parts MAY work, but I'm listing what I KNOW will work.

CIVIC BRAKES



I have made a chart to simplify "what can I do to my car?" Well first would be make sure its in OEM running condition, and then get good pads/fluid/rotors. This is a list of OEM Honda brake upgrades. After the chart is a desription of how to attain those brakes. Then I mention about upgrading master cylinders to cope with the increased piston requiring more fluid to move the same amount.
Many people assume, and guess. This chart I have here is all factual, and I will not add a system to it without pictures as proof.


At the bottom, I am talking about theory, and you can get numbers and debate all day about what you FEEL is better, but I will tell you, with cast iron rotors, and the same pad material, what brake setup is best. Stainless lines affect pedal feel, a bigger MC makes the brakes firmer, and we can discuss that, but given all OEM parts used on the car, this is how you make your brake system better. First get good tires, then good pads, then look into these OEM upgrades. I will not compare aftermarket calipers to OEM calipers, some are good, and some aftermarket setups are worse and more expensive than some of these OEM setups.
The facts:

Common Interchangeability questions:

* 90-01 Integras (except the Type-R) and 88-00 Civics with rear disc brakes are all interchangeable onto any EK, EG, EF, DA, and DC Chassis.
* Integra rear disc spindles, compared to civic drums, are 7lbs heavier (per side of course.) Civic spindles with discs weigh less, but I don’t know how much.
* EK9 and DC2 take the same front and rear brake pads and rotors, so if you spent a s-word-load of cash on a CTR 5-lug suspension/brake swap, there’s your replacement parts.


* * Legend calipers ARE similar to the Prelude/Integra-R/Civic-R calipers, though since the Legend had the caliper on the back, swap them left to right to keep the bleeder pointing up during bleeding. Legend GS calipers must be mounted on a Civic knuckle with the bleeders pointing DOWN because the calipers are directional (two unequal sized pistons).
* The Civic 88-00 EX rotor is the 10.3" rotor on all EX model Civics from 88-00 and the same rotor found on Integras 90-01 (exc. Type-R).
* DA and DC calipers are NOT the same.
* 94-96 Integras ALL take the SAME front and rear caliper, rotor, pads. WHY people think the GSR has better brakes I don’t know.
* 94-01 Integras and 97-01 ITRs use the same knuckle, and same wheel bearing.
* 98-01 Integra GSR and ITR models use a 1" Master Cylinder, and will bolt onto the 96-00 Civic stock master cylinder and hardlines with no bending of brakelines, and the fluid resovoir is the same.
* 96-00 Civics, all take the same brake booster. The 99 Si and 96 CX both take the same brake booster.
THE 1996-2000 Honda Civic Front Brake OEM Upgrade chart:


Weakest to strongest brake setup
Click the image to open in full size.
These directions tell what Caliper/bracket/rotor to use that will attach to a stock 96-00 Civic DX, CX, LX. If you have an EX model, then where it says to bolt on the EX knuckle, obviously you don’t. The “>94-01 Integra” Upgrade and ">11.1CL" Upgrade would require you to put on DX/LX knuckles. If you have an EG, these upgrades are the same, and the EX knuckle for you EG people would mean the EX/SI knuckle from 94-95 ABS models, or whichever ones come stock with 10.3” front brakes. You can identify the front 10.3” brakes because the caliper mount has that hanger in the front. What it means, is that from stock, this tell what Caliper body, Caliper mounting bracket (what holds the caliper’s slide bolts and attaches it to the steering knuckle) and which rotors are used with the parts.
Legend:
B = The part bolts on, no modifications needed. You need only common car tools.
Pad choice is dictated by bracket, not caliper body.
Therefore, pads ALWAYS go with the CALIPER MOUNTING BRACKET.
An asterisk (*) means that there is some machine or customization.


23T = The caliper bracket mount found on the Integra Type-R, Legend 91-95 (non GS), the 96 Prelude VTEC, the Acura Vigor.
Stock 96-00 Civic DX
This is the OEM brake system. DX knuckles, DX calipers, DX rotors.

to 96-00 EX/Si

Take the complete knuckle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads and swap them onto the Civic DX.

to 90-93 Integra

Take the EX/Si knuckle (with bearing and hub) and bolt on the 17CL14VN 90-93 Integra calipers, caliper mounting brackets, rotors, and pads and swap them onto the Civic DX.



to 94-01 Integra

Take the EX/Si knuckle (with bearing and hub) and bolt on the 17CL14VN 94-01 Integra calipers, caliper mounting brackets, rotors, and pads and swap them onto the Civic DX.

to >94-01 Integra

Use your stock knuckle (with bearing and hub). Get the caliper mounting bracket, 23T, grinded 3.2mm off of the surface where it mounts to the knuckle. Grind down 97-01 Integra Type-R pads at the middle of the backing material. Use a bench grinder to take off material off the inside of the backing plate of the two outer front brake pads. Take off enough material so that it doenst touch the rotor’s hat, about two inches width wise and take the backing material back to the pad material. Go here for details: http://www.honda-tech.com/thread?id=2536 Take the 17CL15VN ITR calipers, 23T GRINDED caliper mounting brackets, Civic EX rotors, and GRINDED pads and swap them onto the Civic DX.


to S2G60

Grind the hangar on the underside roughly 2mm to prevent contact with the rotor's hat. Get a pair of 1992 VW Corrado V6 rotors. Get a set of 61.5mm to 6x.x mm hub centering rings for the rotor. Take the 00-06 S2000 calipers, pads, modified brackets, Corrado G60 rotors and aluminum centering hub rings and swap them onto the Civic DX. More details here http://www.honda-tech.com/thread?id=3423

to 97-01 Integra R


Take the EX/Si knuckle (with bearing and hub) and bolt on the knuckles. Get the caliper mounting bracket, 23T, grinded 3.2mm off of the surface where it mounts to the knuckle. Get 1996 Prelude VTEC rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Take the 17CL15VN ITR calipers, 23T GRINDED caliper mounting brackets, Prelude VTEC rotors, and ITR pads and swap them onto the Civic DX. You can also press the ITR hub into the civic EX bearing, and not grind the bracket, use 97-01 ITR rotors, but then you have 5-lug and will need new wheels. You may use Legend or Vigor calipers, but you should put the right caliper on the left, and vice versa, so to keep the bleeder pointed up.

to 91-96 NSX (2pot)

Take the EX/Si knuckle (with bearing and hub) and bolt on the knuckles. Get the caliper mounting bracket, 23T, grinded 3.2mm off of the surface where it mounts to the knuckle. Get 1996 Prelude VTEC rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Take the 91-96 NSX caliper bodies, 23T GRINDED caliper mounting brackets, Prelude VTEC rotors, and ITR pads and swap them onto the Civic DX.

to 94-95 Legend GS (2pot)

Take the EX/Si knuckle (with bearing and hub) and bolt on the knuckles. Get the caliper mounting bracket, 23T, grinded 3.2mm off of the surface where it mounts to the knuckle. Get 1996 Prelude VTEC rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Take the 94-95 Legend GS caliper bodies, 23T GRINDED caliper mounting brackets, Prelude VTEC rotors, and ITR pads and swap them onto the Civic DX. Because the Legend used calipers on the backside rather than the front, your bleeder will be pointing down, so rotate the caliper 180 degrees around the upper caliper mounting bolt, and place a block in its throat while bleeding the brakes, so that you will have no air in the brake lines.

to >11.1CL

Go here for details: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2211498 This requires a good bit of machine work. Get the caliper mounting bracket, grinded 4.7mm off of the surface where it mounts to the knuckle. Grind the middle of the edges of the throat of the caliper body about 1mm in and 40mm wide. Grind the bracket at the point where it contacts the hub area of the knuckle. Grind the hangar on the underside roughly 2mm to prevent contact with the rotor's hat. Get 1996 Prelude VTEC rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Get 1996 Prelude VTEC rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Get a plastic hammer and carefully bend the dust shield back so that the rotor's back surface does not touch. Get the caliper mounting bracket grinded 3.7 mm off of the surface where it mounts to the knuckle. Get a set of custom made hub centering rings for the rotor. Take the 99-00 RL calipers, pads, modified brackets, Prelude VTEC rotors and custom aluminum centering hub rings and swap them onto the Civic DX.



to S2000

Take the EX/Si knuckle (with bearing and hub) and bolt on the knuckles. Get 2004 RSX Type-S rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Get a plastic hammer and carefully bend the dust shield back so that the rotor's back surface does not touch. Take the S2000 calipers, caliper mounting brackets, and pads, RSX Type-S redrilled rotors, and swap them onto the Civic DX.

to 99-00 RL

Take the EX/Si knuckle with bearing and press the 97-01 Integra Type-R hubs into the bearings and bolt on the knuckles. Take the RL caliper mounting brackets and place a 1.5mm washer between the knuckle and bracket, and use the 99-00 RL caliper mounting bracket bolts, as they are longer. Take the 99-00 RL calipers, 99-00 RL rotors, and 99-00 RL pads and swap them onto the Civic DX. This does use the 5-lug ITR hub, so you will need new wheels.

to >91-96 NSX (2pot)

Take the EX/Si knuckle with bearing and press the 97-01 Integra Type-R hubs into the bearings and bolt on the knuckles. Take the 28T caliper mounting brackets and place a 1.5mm washer between the knuckle and bracket, and use the 99-00 RL caliper mounting bracket bolts, as they are longer. Take the 91-96 NSX calipers, 99-00 RL rotors, and 99-00 RL pads and swap them onto the Civic DX. This does use the 5-lug ITR hub, so you will need new wheels.



to >94-95 Legend GS (2pot)

Take the EX/Si knuckle with bearing and press the 97-01 Integra Type-R hubs into the bearings and bolt on the knuckles. Take the 28T caliper mounting brackets and place a 1.5mm washer between the knuckle and bracket, and use the 99-00 RL caliper mounting bracket bolts, as they are longer. Take the 94-95 Legend GS calipers, 99-00 RL rotors, and 99-00 RL pads and swap them onto the Civic DX. This does use the 5-lug ITR hub, so you will need new wheels.

to 06 TL Type-S (display purposes; do not attempt)

**I do not have the specifics posted here on this setup yet.
Machine the ITR hub’s outer diameter and the inner hubcentric bore down to the contact face. Take the EX/Si knuckle with bearing and press the 97-01 Integra Type-R hubs into the bearings and bolt on the knuckles. Use a hubcentric spacer and put it on the modified Type-R hub. Machine the TL calipers where they meet the steering knuckle. Take the modified TL Type-S calipers, modified TL Type-S rotors, TL Type-S pads and swap them onto the Civic DX. This does use the 5-lug ITR hub, so you will need new wheels. This setup will not clear 16” wheels.

THE BRAKE SYSTEM:

Pedal – Brake Booster – Master Cylinder – Hardlines – Prop. Valve – Hardlines – Brake Hoses – Caliper – Brake Pad – Rotor.


How to upgrade your stock system (simplest to most complex):
TIRES!!!!!!! Your car will ONLY stop as fast as your tires allow before they slip.
Spend the money on tires. ITR brakes on your ABS civic with s-word tires will not stop as soon as stock brakes with great tires on your ABS civic because the ITR brakes will lock up the wheels.
First off, your stock rotors…unless you are a professional racer, worrying about CONSISTENT lap times in the wet with a full stripped racecar, you do NOT want drilled or slotted rotors. Your best rotors are blank cast iron rotors, such as OEM ones. F1 cars do not have holes in their rotors, nor do rally cars. If you must have bling, go with slotted, but do not use drilled.
DO NOT use drilled rotors on any street Honda, this is why: http://www.honda-tech.com/thread?id=2536



Pads

For pads, your OEM pads will work well, but ceramic pads will work better, and metal usually work best. If you have some cheap pads and drilled rotors, put back on your blank rotors and semi-ceramic pads, and you’ll brake better. Some people THINK drilled and slotted rotors work better, but this can be braking feel, opposed to the actual minimum 60-0 distance the car will do with ABS. The truth is that drilled and slotted rotors decrease surface area where the pad contacts. The same pressure from the piston to the pad is applied to less area, thus increasing the pressure. This means that drilled/slotted rotors heat up quicker. Now on a road this may be beneficial if you live in a cold area, but when your braking consistently, they are going to fade sooner, and those holes don't do crap for cooling, the rotor's surface and vents are going to provide a lot more cooling surface area than a few extra holes will net you. This so called improve braking CAN be percieved from the increased nose dive or lurch forward from a stronger initial bite onto a cross drilled rotor.

Wheel Style

Wheels can affect brakes. If for example you are using the >94-01 Integra brake setup with steelies and wheel covers, and you have metal pads on a track, your brakes could be fading. Using bigger, open spoked wheels can help let the heat radiate from the rotor and the caliper. Remember that both are heatsinks (the NSX has grooves in it to up surface area for this reason.) On a high speed driving day with triple digit temperatures, just letting the heat radiate out can cool the brakes faster, though I cant say how much because there are so many factors. Even the new Maybach 57S has more open wheels to cool its brakes, and even the old Taurus SHO had wheels designed like a pinwheel to pull air out of the brake area (yes this does work.)

Brake Booster

Upgrading your brake booster to the Integra (or maybe other) sized one has the only drawback of pushing the MC forward, so the hardlines aren't going to be in the same place as they were. So bending hardlines may be in order. What a bigger booster does is the same thing as increasing the pedal length, it increases the force on the MC linearly. Like it may may push on it 40% harder or so at any given point. So this basically makes your foot do less work. This is for people who have a really soft foot and want to make their car brake 'harder'. This can be done, but given the weight of the civic chassis, if you use the right sized MC with its paired caliper, no upgrade to the booster is necessary. It gets to the point where its just personal preference.



Master Cylinder relative to the Caliper

When you go to bigger caliper than use a larger piston, you are pushing more fluid through the brake lines. Therefore, you should want a larger master cylinder to push this more fluid.
General rule is…with your stock Civic DX, with the stock front calipers, keep your 13/16” MC. Any bigger and your pedal will be too stiff.
With EX/Si calipers, use a 7/8” MC from a 96-00 EX or 99-00 Si because of the more fluid going to a larger piston.
With ITR/Legend/Vigor/Accord V6 or Integra DA or DC calipers, use a 15/16” MC from a 98-01 Integra LS to accommodate for the even more fluid. Any smaller of a MC will cause the pedal swing to be too long.
With NSX or Legend GS calipers that have two pistons, or an aftermarket caliper with multiple pistons, you’ll want a 1” MC because of even more fluid required to push all the pistons. Get the 1” MC from a 98-01 Integra GSR or ITR MC as it bolts onto the EK brake booster.
When changing out a master cylinder, be sure to 'bench bleed' it first. This involves having fluid in the resovoir and pumping it unconnected to allow fluid to fill the internals. If you don't do this, you can still bleed the car, but you may be at it all day, since air pockets may stick in there. Research bench bleeding before you attempt this on your own.
A bigger caliper usually has a bigger bracket, thus holds a bigger surface area pad. This is generally better, and that’s why on a Civic, you swap on an Integra caliper, because the piston is bigger (more fluid, that doesn’t help) but the pad is bigger, and the piston disperses its energy over more area because of a larger contact surface with the shim.


Now, an ITR brake system on a Civic with crummy pads, drilled rotors, stainless lines and old, water absorbed brake fluid may stop just as well as an Integra GS brake system on a Civic with good tires, semi-ceramic pads, new fluid, and blank rotors. This page is telling how to upgrade, and yes, with the same other factors, you will have a shorter 60-0 distance and less brake fade. But there are many other factors of your brake system. If you have air bubbles in the lines, it will suck. So don’t complain if you went to an aftermarket kit, or a 5-lug full ITR suspension and don’t feel like it stops as well as your civic did bone stock. It may be worse, may be better, but I can’t tell you exactly HOW much worse or better it is without knowing everything specifically.

BRAKE SOFTLINES

Brake softlines, or brake hoses, are the rubbery hoses that can flex since the hardline is bolted to the frame and the brake moves up and down with the wheel. Honda uses rubber lines as OEM. They are very durable, and unless you take a box cutter to them directly, or are in an accident, this brake hose won't leak out the sides. They will leak if you get dirt on the contact point where the softline and hardline meet if you make a dirty mess when installing. Make sure the surfaces are clean. Now many people will attest to having a firmer brake pedal with stainless steel brake lines, and this is true. Though they flex from the hydraulic pedal same as rubber OEM hoses, they do flex less.
Stainless steel brake lines affect pedal feel, not 60-0 distances. They make the pedal a bit less soft because the stainless braided lines flex less than the OEM rubber hoses, and affect pedal modulation, but on an ABS equipped car, testing the before and after 60-0 distance will show no difference.
If you do choose to use steel braided brake hoses, be sure to get some that come with some kind of coating outside the steel mesh. Any track racer will tell you that this mesh can get dust and grit in it, and this can cause wear to the brake hose inside this steel mesh, possibly causing wear, or even a leak. When connecting a banjo bolt for any reason, be sure to always use a new crush washer. Crush washers are a one time use part. Its annoying to spend the money and change em out whenever a caliper is disconnected, but you don't want a leak. Any leak in the hydraulic brake system will squirt fluid at a high pressure, and thus less pressure is going to the actual brake to stop the car.
REAR BRAKES OF YOUR 96-00 CIVIC
All but the OEM drums are considered upgrades because…I can't find any OEM larger drums that will bolt onto a civic. Even if I did, you'd still have to unbolt the drum spindle, so it’s just as much of a pain in the ***, if not more so, because most disc swaps…people swap the whole trailing arm. You may debate whether or not drums stop better than discs, but on a Civic, yes; discs ARE better at stopping you. Drums may last longer, but were interested in smaller 60-0 distances.



Common Interchangeability questions:

*When doing a rear disc conversion on an EK, you ONLY need the spindle, NOT the whole trailing arm. The spindle is held on by four T50 torx bolts and one 24mm bolt on all EF, EG, EK, DA, and DC chassis. Yes, the Torx bolts are hard to get out, and torque hard.
*88-00 Civic and 90-01 Integra Trailing arms are all interchangeable; all but the center bushing is the same.
*On an EK, use your stock LCAs, UCAs, and compensator arms or you will affect suspension geometry.
*Not all calipers may be 100% identical, but calipers and mounting brackets are Interchangeable between calipers on the following models: 88-91 CRX Si, 90-91 Civic Sedan EX, 99-00 Si, 94-95 Si with ABS, 96-97 Civic del Sol VTEC, 90-93 Integra,94-01 Integra (all models exc. Type-R)
*Civic drum rear brakes are lighter than Integra disc brakes by 7lbs spindle verse spindle.
*Civic Rear Discs are lighter than Integra Rear Discs (as a complete spindle, the rotors are identical), I don't know by how much.
*As of now, I know of no way to swap front calipers to use on the back. The caliper mount points are much farther apart for front caliper brackets, and most Hondas take solid rear discs, which are solid opposed to ventilated rotors, and they are much thinner. Also, you would have no e-brake mechanism because front calipers don’t have integrated e-brake parts.


THE 1996-2000 Honda Civic Rear Brake OEM Upgrade chart:
Weakest to strongest brake setup
Click the image to open in full size.
Legend:
7CLP13S = 99-00 Si Caliper/CRX Si/90-01 Integra Caliper
Not all (7CLP13S) calipers/brackets may be 100% Identical, but calipers and mounting brackets are Interchangeable between calipers on the following models:
88-91 CRX Si, 90-91 Civic Sedan EX, 99-00 Si, 94-95 Si with ABS, 96-97 Del Sol VTEC, 90-93 Integra,94-01 Integra (all models exc. Type-R)
Si = Refers to the 7CLP13S (or equivelent) caliper and relative bracket
9CLP14S = EP3 Calipers/ RSX calipers


3EP = RSX/EP3 rear caliper bracket
*To use RSX/EP3 Calipers on a Civic/Integra with civic/ Integra e-brake cables, the e-brake attachment lever will need to be switched from any 7CLP13S caliper body.
*91-95 Legend rear calipers on a Civic/Teg with the 10.4" rotors uses the lighter Legend caliper, because it’s a caliper with just a piston, so it eliminates the e-brake cable and parts (for track cars). The 91-95 Legend used a separate drum for an e-brake.
*The NSX Calipers on a Civic/Teg is not reccomended to be paired with any front setup with less than an 11.8" rotor unless the car has had weight distribution modification for track use, etc. This setup is very stong and on most setups, rear bias the car too much.
Stock 96-00 Civic DX
This is the OEM brake system. DX drum spindles, DX slave cylinder, DX drums

to 88-91 CRX Si

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads) and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use the 99-00 Civic Si e-brake cables.



to 92-95 Civic Si / 96-97 Del Sol VTEC

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads) and swap them onto the Civic DX. You can use the 92-95 Civic Si or 96-97 Del Sol VTEC e-brake cables if 99-00 Si cables are not available, but they may be a bit long, so use the adjustment screw.

to 99-00 Civic Si

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads) and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use the 99-00 Civic Si e-brake cables.

to 90-01 Integra (exc. ITR)

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads) and swap them onto the Civic DX. You can use the 94-01 Integra e-brake cables if 99-00 Si cables are not available, but they will be a bit long, so use the adjustment screw.

to >90-01 Integra (exc. ITR)



Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, and calipers) and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use 02-03 Civic Si (EP3) caliper bracket mounts, 90-01 Integra brake pads, and EP3 rotors. Since the EP3 uses a 4x100 10.2” rear rotor, you will use the small Integra brake pad, but with the bracket will be spaced out farther from the center. You can use the 94-01 Integra e-brake cables if 99-00 Si cables are not available, but they will be a bit long, so use the adjustment screw.

to 02-03 Civic Si

Take the rear spindle (with bearing and hub) from any 88-00 Civic with rear discs, or 94-01 Integra and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use 02-03 Civic Si (EP3) caliper bracket mounts, 02-03 Civic Si EP3 brake pads, and 02-03 Civic Si EP3 rotors. To use RSX or EP3 Calipers on a Civic/Integra with Civic/Integra e-brake cables, use the e-brake attachment lever swapped on from any 7CLP13S caliper body. Use the 99-00 Civic Si e-brake cables.

to 02-06 RSX/ 04-05 Civic Si

Take the rear spindle from any 88-00 Civic with rear discs, or 94-01 Integra and swap them onto the Civic DX. Bolt the 5x114.3 hub from a 97-01 Integra Type-R on. Use 02-03 Civic Si (EP3) caliper bracket mounts, RSX brake pads, and 97-01 Integra Type-R rotors. To use RSX or EP3 Calipers on a Civic/Integra with Civic/Integra e-brake cables, use the e-brake attachment lever swapped on from any 7CLP13S caliper body. Use the 99-00 Civic Si e-brake cables. You will need 5-lug wheels.

to 96-00 Civic Type-R

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads) from a 96-00 Civic Type-R and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use the 96-00 Civic Type-R e-brake cables. You will need 5-lug wheels.



to 97-01 Integra R

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, calipers, caliper hangars, rotors, and pads) from a 97-01 Integra Type-R and swap them onto the Civic DX. You can use the 97-01 Integra Type-R e-brake cables if 99-00 Si cables are not available, but they may be a bit long so use the adjustment screw. You will need 5-lug wheels.

to 91-95 Legend

Take the rear spindle (with bearing, hub, rotors, and pads) from a 97-01 Integra Type-R and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use the 91-95 Legend calipers and caliper hangars. You will no longer have an e-brake. You will need 5-lug wheels.

to 00-06 S2000

Get a custom spindle bracket adapter made. Remove everything bolted to the rear drum spindle except the trailing arm. Install the bracket onto the spindle and reattach the hub. Get 00-06 S2000 rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Get the ITR calipers, pads, caliper mounting bracket, redrilled 00-06 S2000 rotors, hub centering rings, and custom caliper mounting bracket adapter and swap them onto the Civic DX. Use the 99-00 Civic Si e-brake cables.

to 91-96 NSX



Get a custom spindle bracket adapter made. Remove everything bolted to the rear drum spindle except the trailing arm. Install the bracket onto the spindle and reattach the hub. Get 91-96 NSX rotors re-drilled to fit the 4x100 hub. Get a set of custom made hub centering rings for the rotor. Swap the left L-bracket that the e-brake cable goes through from a 7CLP13S caliper onto the rear right NSX caliper, and right to left. Get the NSX calipers, pads, caliper mounting bracket, redrilled 91-96 NSX rotors, hub centering rings, and custom caliper mounting bracket adapter and swap them onto the Civic DX.. Use the 99-00 Civic Si e-brake cables.

Drum to Disc Conversion - Brake Fluid Line Interchangeability

When you remove rear drums and convert to discs, if you are using 99-00 Si spindles and brake lines, everything is fine. However, other brake lines may not work. You do want 99-00 Civic Si or 96-00 Civic Type-R brake lines because the drum takes a different fitting. Regardless of what caliper you use, all rear calipers (and front) take a banjo bolt for the brake fluid, so they use an O-shaped connector opposed to the female fitting that connects to the hardlines on the frame of the car. So when converting from drum to disc, or disc to drum, the brake fluid lines are not the same, and regardless of which rear caliper you use, use brake hoses intended for a 99-00 Civic Si (OEM or aftermarket.)
E-brake
The emergency brake cables meant for a drum setup has a totally different end at the caliper/drum part, so those for a drum are not the same as those for a caliper.
Ideally you want to use 99-00 Si e-brake cables, but those from a 94-01 Integra work, as I have them on my 96 Civic right now, just adjust the adjusting screw more toward the front. Also the clamp that holds both cables in place wont line up, but you can move it to where it will, though only one bolt will go into the frame, not both.

Brake Bias - Front and Rear Caliper Pairing



Generally, when you go to bigger caliper than use a larger piston, you are pushing more fluid through the brake lines. Therefore, you should want a larger master cylinder to push this more fluid.
However, since the rear brake’s drum slave cylinder, or caliper piston, take much less fluid than the front brakes. Also, since you should have more powerful front brakes on your front wheel drive, front-engined car (70% to 80% of braking on the front wheels) then it is not necessary to consider rear brakes when upgrading master cylinders. Converting from drums to the 99 Si discs, about the same fluid is used, so the stock MC will be fine. If you had the DX front brakes and put on ITR rear calipers and EP3 discs, then you may want a step for master cylinders, though I recommend against this because the rear disc will be larger than the front, and the rears will lockup well before the front, meaning your rear wheels brake traction before the front brakes can do their job effectively. This means the bigger brakes can't do their job.
General rule for brake biasing is…
-With your stock Civic DX, with the stock front calipers, keep the drums it has.
-With EX/Si front brakes, upgrade to the rear 7CLP13S caliper and 9.4” rear discs.
-With Integra DA or DC calipers, or ITR calipers over a 10.3” rotor, upgrade the rear to the 7CLP13S caliper with the EP3 mounting bracket and over EP3 rotors. This gives you 10.2” rotors, however you still use the smaller brake pad and caliper, just spacing it out further, to reduce nose dive, and give a bump in back brake power since the 57mm piston of Integra calipers is more clamping power than the 2” piston of the Civic EX calipers.
-With ITR/Legend/Vigor/Accord V6 or with NSX or Legend GS calipers that have two pistons, or an aftermarket caliper with multiple pistons, or any front setup using a 11.1” rotor or bigger, OR if you did the 23T over 10.3” rotor hybrid, and are using two piston calipers with them, use the 10.2” rear rotor with the 9CLP14S rear calipers. If you have a track only car, I recommend 91-95 Legend rear calipers, as they are simpler, lighter and have no e-brake mechanism to deal with.
Brake Bias - Proportioning Valve


Swapping to a 96-99 CX or 99-00 Si prop. valve when installing rear discs.
The 99-00 Civic Si comes with the same shaped proportioning valve as any 96-00 Civic, so swapping the proportioning valve is a bolt on job, which can be done with a few offset brake line wrenches. The stock drum proportioning valve, when the brake pedal is applied, sends fluid to the rear drums only. This is because the drum shoes are a few millimeters from the drum, so the fluid initially moves the pads to touch the drum, whereas with a pad and rotor, the pad is so close that it brushes along the rotor while driving. After the shoe touches the drum, the proportioning valve sends fluid to the front calipers as well, and then acts as a hub for the fluid. So a rear drum intended prop. valve in a car with four wheel discs is not the end of the world.
The 99-00 SI proportioning valve acts as a hub more of the time, since the back brakes are calipers, there is no need to send so much fluid initially to the back brakes because they are calipers, and use pads that also brush against the rotor constantly. Therefore, a rear disc intended prop. valve in a car with front discs and rear drums would be very bad.
When you swap from drum to disc rear brakes, obviously its best that you use a prop. valve that was meant for it. Though I recommend that you install the 99-00 Si prop valve on your 96-00 Civic when you put rear discs on it, because of how it works, I do not have it on my rear disc equipped 1996 Civic. I do not track race, and have good tires, and on the streets, have not locked up the rear tires before the fronts because I can brake very hard and not lockup the tires. I do not have ABS.

Drum to Disc Conversion - Side notes on the conversion

The most common upgrade people want to do to their EK is put disc brakes on the back because they stop better, and have less nose dive than drums. Now drums do last longer, but if you want better stopping, go with discs. Also, please read about brake bias before you decide if you want to put discs on with the stock 9.5" front brakes if you have bad tires. Many will attest that discs with the stock DX front brakes causes the rear brakes to lockup first. This may be true with non-performance tires and on a track, but on the street under normal braking, you will be fine.
I don't have a DIY up yet on my rear disc conversion, however there are may written with better pictures, so I will just leave a few notes.
First off, MAKE sure you bleed it untill there are NO air bubbles. Your car doesnt drive if it doesn't stop. Acquire all your tools and a torque wrench. Now a note; the e-brake cable is hard to get out of the drum assembly. You want to hit the hubber along the e-brake cable with WD-40, and inside the drum assembly, is a spring clip. Its got 6-sides. Slide a box end 13mm wrench over the end of the e-brake cable, and slide it firmly over the end of this clip, and it will compress, so you can firmly pull the cable out the other side. Another note, is that once the trailing arm is attached, undo and redo each bolt, torque properly, when the car is sitting on its own wheels, so the bushings arent overstressed all the time cause there binded more than expected (not the trailing arm's center bushing).


You do NOT need the entire trailing arm; ALL 88-00 civics and 90-01 Integras take the same shaped trailing arm. You need only the spindle, which is attached by a 24mm nut, and four T50 torx bolts. Please note that most swap the entire trailing arm because those torx bolts are in there VERY firmly. I have banged the hell out of a hammer and impact and still had them stay. I advise air tools, because even with all my weight and brute force, they may not come out. Brake lines may be stubborn if your car is older and rusty. The brake hard lines can strip easily if you do not use the proper wrench. A brake line wrench is what you need, which is a 10mm box end wrench with a slot cut out so that you can slide it over the hardline. You can use this on the bleeder screw too if you put the bleeder hose over the bleeder valve first so that brake fluid doesn't spill. On an EK chassis civic, the bleeding sequence is right rear, then left front, then left rear, then front right. Don't go in a circle, the EK chassis uses a crossed brake system, so go by this sequence to avoid any cross contamination of air into the lines, otherwise you may be bleeding all day.

Thougts on Brake Pedal Feel

Some will attest to stainless lines and an oversized (relative to the front calipers) master cylinder giving a "rock hard" pedal feel. I can't say yes or no on every case but I will say this. If you have an OEM Honda, and you add stainless lines, this may improve response through a slightly less spongy pedal, but ceramic or metal brake pads change the brake pedal feel as much if not more. Pad selection is everything, it determines heat, fade, initial bite and dive, coeffecient of friction on that iron rotor, and yeah it affectts your 60-0 distance almost as much as tires, id say pad choice and tires are your two limiting factors fighting over each other. Remember that the rotor AND the pad are both heatsinks for brake heat, so if you have a ceramic pad which wont fade, this is gonna keep your brakes from feeling spongy later in the day when they get all hot (like on a track race or on a fast highway like 85 when its a hundred degrees out.) Open spoked wheels can help big time with brake fade.

REMEMBER......
Your car will only stop as fast as your tires will allow. All the braking in the world wont work if your tires are bald and on ice!!
Feel free to PM me for brakes, I do make some of these custom setups.
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Last edited by BrakeExpert; 01-20-2013 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Excellent guide A much needed reference for a very confusing topic.
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

thanks for the chart. just to make sure im reading it correctly:

ive got integra spindles/brakes on my 92 civic front and rear

s2000 calipers and rotors are bolt on with the exception of redrilling the rotors?
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

No. You need to have the brackets machined, and you use RSX type-S rotors. S2000 rotors are too shallow and have too big a centerbore, they do not go on Civics or Integrasa.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

i meant for front, sorry for not specifying.

i read the chart wrong. i see now the * beside s2000 bracket. how much does it have to be machined?
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

So ill HAVE to make my em1 5 lug in order to use nsx calipers? I'm trying to get front and rear calipers on my si..

I remember u used to sell kits and calipers.. if u still do?.. how much for everything as a kit to make nsx calipers fit on my si, including calipers.. basically all the parts r need to put on including calipers.. I can do all the work here cuz I have access to machines..

Feel free to PM me if u like, about price or parts..
Thanks ahead
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

This is one of the greatest brake threads ever, simply amazing.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

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Old 04-08-2012, 10:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Can someone tell me the difference between a booster for a 15/16" MC and a booster made for a 7/8" MC?
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Mike (BrakeExpert) and I spent yesterday afternoon installing the s2000 11.8" front rotor setup and the 11" s2000 rear setup:

Old/New rear:

Click the image to open in full size.

Old/new front:

Click the image to open in full size.

New rear almost done:

Click the image to open in full size.

Complete and bedded in front setup (After we finally wore off all the paint:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_H22 View Post
So ill HAVE to make my em1 5 lug in order to use nsx calipers? I'm trying to get front and rear calipers on my si..

I remember u used to sell kits and calipers.. if u still do?.. how much for everything as a kit to make nsx calipers fit on my si, including calipers.. basically all the parts r need to put on including calipers.. I can do all the work here cuz I have access to machines..

Feel free to PM me if u like, about price or parts..
Thanks ahead
no need to swap to 5 lug. mini cooper rotors + 23t or 25t bracket.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Ok thanks.. ur 100% sure this will work??
isn't nsx 25t bracket? Not grinding nothing else to do? Or is that the closest setup that ill just have to adjust myself for it to fit/work properly?

Sry did my search but ppl say different stuff everytime. Not too good with brakes..

And I will have to swap my ms and booster to gsr since my em1 isn't big enough? Some say si is the same size and ill be fine.. sorry for all the questions I'm just a little confused here..
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

nsx bracket is 28t. i suggest using the 23t bracket.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertariat View Post
New rear almost done:

Click the image to open in full size.
Im sorry but whats the point if your running stock sized calipers and pads? To me it seems like all you did was add rotational mass...
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

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Im sorry but whats the point if your running stock sized calipers and pads? To me it seems like all you did was add rotational mass...
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:05 AM   #16
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Quote:
Originally Posted by abs0Lut View Post
Im sorry but whats the point if your running stock sized calipers and pads? To me it seems like all you did was add rotational mass...
The caliper is grabbing a much faster moving part of the rotor when it's moved out like that. It's more bite and more heat sink.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

The larger rotor offers more "brake torque". Yes it adds more mass, however the rear setup overall is actually lighter than the 10.2" type-R rear setup (in 4 or 5 lug form). It also offers more fade resistance, which is invaluble on the track.

Regarding the NSX brakes, if you are staying 4x100, you will have to mill the brackets, even if you use the 28T bracket and use the thicker, heavier Legend GS rotors.

Regarding the brake boosters, ya gotta read up. ALL eks have the same brake booster, all of them. There are times where a civic and Integra may both have had a 15/16" MC, but their brake boosters are not the same because the Integra depending on the year got a bigger brake booster.

For the last time guys, the Mini Cooper rotor DOES NOT WORK. All those pictures you see are test mounted. When you actually drive on them, they suck because the pad hangs OFF the edge of the disc, you get crappy initial braking, they take forever to bed in, you will have fading problems and the pad is now tapered, reducing the braking power. It is STILL much better and safer to use redrilled Prelude VTEC discs, they aren't that expensive, PM me.

Finally, No. NSX brakes CAN be done in 4x100:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:24 AM   #18
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Are the front calipers from the Rsx type s the same or identicle as the ones on a s2000? if so do both of them provide the same performance values? Both will require to mill down the caliper in order to fit si front knuckles right?
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Awesome thread.
I was thinking about putting a bigger sized MC on my car but reading this showed that I shouldnt really do that.
I will just put a stock one on it and some good fluid
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3k1n View Post
Are the front calipers from the Rsx type s the same or identicle as the ones on a s2000? if so do both of them provide the same performance values? Both will require to mill down the caliper in order to fit si front knuckles right?
The s2000 calipers and brackets are different, though they use the same pad. BrakeExpert will have to chime in on the fitment, and Si/Ex knuckles are the same. There's nothing special about the Si, it's all 23T


Quote:
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Awesome thread.
I was thinking about putting a bigger sized MC on my car but reading this showed that I shouldnt really do that.
I will just put a stock one on it and some good fluid
What MC do you have now? If you upgrade the brakes I highly recommend getting at least a 15/16" or 1" MC.

My pedal feels like stock with the 1" MC on s2000 calipers, I'd hate to feel them with a 15/16"
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

I have stock brakes now prolly will keep them for a while.
And its just a stock Dx MC
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

I swear this used to be stickied somewhere.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

It was. I removed all of my material from this site when the software change happened and the great migration happened.

They unbanned me, so its all going back.
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

So right now I have integra brakes all around 1"mc with ebc rotors(slotted with dimples) and Im thinking to get brembo blanks for the front in do time. Do I go with brembo blanks or do I get oem blanks. And which pads do you recommend ? 92 civic hatch daily drivin and takin to the track a couple times a months and I'm in Miami if that matters.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integr

Quote:
Originally Posted by STOCK_SOHC_DX View Post
I swear this used to be stickied somewhere.



Quote:
Originally Posted by solis153 View Post
So right now I have integra brakes all around 1"mc with ebc rotors(slotted with dimples) and Im thinking to get brembo blanks for the front in do time. Do I go with brembo blanks or do I get oem blanks. And which pads do you recommend ? 92 civic hatch daily drivin and takin to the track a couple times a months and I'm in Miami if that matters.
Pardon me for speaking for Mike (BrakeExpert) But he generally doesn't like brembo blanks castings.

If I recall correctly from our conversation at his place last week, he likes Centric rotors a lot. It's what we used for my upgrade last week.
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