kcari

Hey, my alignment is good, according to spec sheets via the Hunter alignment machine, but as soon as I get off the ramp and drive, the specs change. The technition says no components are loose or broken. On paper my alignment is good, even with toe in -in the front, but the car's steering wheel pulls/is not straight.
Any ideas? And my passenger side tie rod was slightly stripped, but my mechanic cut new ridges and was able to put a castle nut back into place- could this be a cause of the specs changing or are the lasers crap?

Wideopentuning

What are your caster numbers? Tire pressure set before the alignment? Try cross rotating the tires?

blaze the chemi

My car too was fine on my last alignment. I put in a new suspension, rotated my tires (directional so they stayed on the same side) and had the alignment done. Everything was great but it would pull just slightly to the left with the new alignment.

The shop claimed that it could be my tires since they are actually shot. I haven't tried putting them back the same way as before though.

Try rotating just to check.

kcari

hello, my caster on one side is 2.3 and the other is 2.0. I don't have a front camber kit, but one side is -1.0 and the other is -.8 - so there's not much difference there.

btw, do I want negative toe up front or positive toe?

I did rotate the tires but still had the same problem. Im running on toyo proxes that only have about 10k miles on them and still look relatively new. I never had a problem with a different shop, but that shop did not offer me a warranty and usually after 2 months or so the car would start pulling again even though I did not hit a major bump.

Could a lip kit be messing up the readings?
another thing ive noticed is that my toe readings always change but my camber stays pretty consistent, even after 2 days the toe settings were off by .5 degrees or one side would go negative and the other would be positive and the front is most affected.

boostatic

what kinda car is it?? which way is it pulling?? send me your alignment specs..i can tell you just from the specs which way it should be pulling..send them to me in this form..

LF camber RF camber
LF caster RF caster
LF toe RF toe

LR camber RR camber
LR toe RR toe

Chrisfball12

It could be a few things

1 You got a lazy tech who pushes down on the car and hits print

2 your bushings are messed up

3 your tires are worn uneven

4 Do you have the fix a flat crap inside?

5 Road crown will cause your car to drift to one side even on a road that looks flat

6 bad bushings

7 have you been in a fender bender?

kcari

ill send the specs tomorrow, they ra ein my car.

car's subframe and all suspension components are good - checked by 2 different people.
The only thing thats "different" is the passenger side tie rod that was partially stripped, but my mechanic fixed it by creating ridges and so the stud is like new. Either way there is no wiggle.

If my bushings are messed up, would i hear noise?

I am pretty sure its not the roads, as i take the same roads and before the car was straight.
I really doubt tire is an issue either, all four tires look brand new.
and the tech is a friend of mine.

Could it be that maybe he is not setting the steering wheel as straight as i prefer?
Maybe his straight is different than my straight?

Do I want both sides/left right to be even? Or should the driver side have positive toe while the passenger side should have negative toe?

boostatic

if the bushings are bad you would usually have play in them when you shake the car down before the alignment..when you check for bad parts..

and im really not understanding you...IS THE CAR PULLING OR IS THE STEERING WHEEL CROOKED??? THERE IS A DIFFERENCE...

the toe should be even on both sides..if one side is negative and one side is positive that means that the steering wheel is probably crooked..

Chrisfball12

well I'm looking at the specs for a 1990 accord and everything is the same on drivers and passengers side theirs no difference.

Chances are your steering wheel or tie rod is just slightly off just enough where you can't see it.

Ask your friend to do this on the Hunter machine

Wind tunnel <The newest feature (2008) from hunter. It will show the spec when your wheels are turning to make sure everything is in the green.

Make sure your friend gets the spec absolute perfect

If he can't fix it you can set the opposite site to the same spec as the pulling side so they cancel out.

Do a caster sweep and check to see if your steering wheel is straight

kcari

its an 01 civic coupe

right now the steering wheel has to be turned to the left in order to go straight.
If i straighten the steering wheel out it goes right and very quickly too. the steering feels very responsive and does not seem to wander anymore.
here are the current specs as of 2 days ago
LF camber -1.0 RF camber -.9
LF caster 2.2 RF caster 2.0
LF toe 0.04 RF toe 0.04

LR camber -1.7 RR camber -2.0
LR toe .21 RR toe .12

the before readings for the toe is
LF -0.16 RF 0.11

but 2 weeks ago the car was not pulling as much as it is now, but it sometimes would pull left on the flat roads and felt like it was wandering when driving faster than 70 mph and my steering felt loose and unstable and steering did not feel very responsive. my alignment read
LF camber -1.1 RF camber -.5
LF caster 2.2 RF caster 1.7
LF toe -0.01 RF toe -0.01

LR camber -1.5 RR camber -1.8
LR toe 0.14 RR toe 0.15

but how does the toe change from -0.01 to
LF -0.16 RF 0.11 in 2 weeks with very minimal driving and no potholes?

and I think he did use the wind tunnel.
could it be that his perception of how the steering wheel should be straight is different than mine and thus affecting the alignment?

bleedblue94

dont forget it could also be drag from the brakes... check and see if a caliper is sticking

kcari

I dont think it can be brake related since I didnt have any major pulling before I got an alignment at this new place. I only got an alignment because my mechanic "fixed" my tie rod stud. So should I ask for Toe in (positive toe) in the front since the steering wheel is more responsive that way?

boostatic

u gotta understand when you have positive and negative toe its like adding + and - numbers..

you have -.16 and +.11 and it goes like this...
-.15 and +.10
-.14 and +.09
-.13 and +.08
-.12 and +.07
-.11 and +.06
-.10 and +.05
-.09 and +.04
-.08 and +.03
-.07 and +.02
-.06 and +.01
-.05 and +.00
-.04 and -.01
-.03 and -.02
so basically if ur steering wheel were straite the toe would would be what it came out to in the end..so your toe really hasnt changed..you asked how did go from -.01 to -.16 and +.11 but really its only .01 off..hope u understand that..

and as far as ur alignment specs..you do mean -.9 instead of -.09 correct?? for the RF camber..

boostatic

no do not ask for toe in..just gonna wear your tires..i dont believe in setting toe out of factory spec..unless you're doin it specifically for racing or sumthin like that..

kcari

what is factory spec? the specified range on the sheet for civics 01-05 non Si is from -0.12 to 0.12

so what should i ask for if I want the steering wheel to remain straight, go straight, and have responsive control?

im still not quite clear on the negative/positive toe on different sides.

im still confused on why these specs would cause the steering wheel to be crooked with major pulling
LF camber -1.0 RF camber -.09
LF caster 2.2 RF caster 2.0
LF toe 0.04 RF toe 0.04

boostatic

if the specified range on the sheet is -0.12 to 0.12 that means that center is 0..that means you wheels will be dead straite..its like sayn u start at 0 and walk 12 paces one way..u start at 0 and walk 12 paces the other way..negative and positive is 12 is equal distant from 0..

say both your front wheels are in spec and they are set dead center of the spec at 0...

LF 0 RF 0

as you turn the steering wheel the toe is goin to change..because the wheels are goin to turn..so lets say you turn the steering wheel to the right..the wheels will do the same thing...so this is what you're gonna have..

LF +.5 RF -.5

and as you keep turning the wheel it'll go up

LF +1.0 RF -1.0

when your toe is pointing outwards its known as negative toe..when its pointing inwards its known as positive toe...

kcari

should I do 0.00 toe front and rear?
what if he cant do 0.00 precisely
can i do 0.03 toe in the front both sides
and 0.10 in the rear?

so are you saying that
if one side is negative and the other side is positive that is okay?
for example
toe in the left front can be -0.05 while the right front can be 0.05?

boostatic

set it as close to zero as possible..i dont think the spec for the rear is zero is it??

kcari

well according to prior alignments, my toe was as close to zero as possible, but there was still pulling. I notice that when I had negative toe up front the car wandered and was very unstable. But now that I have positive toe, it feels very stable, except for the crooked steering wheel.
and i guess rear toe should be at 0.10 or about.

how crucial is it to have both sides perfectly even?
for example would 0.05 and 0.03 make a noticeable difference in pulling or tire wearing?

boostatic

something else is goofy..its not the alignment

kcari

can I do .03 toe in the front? slightly positive toe has given me the response and stability that im used to. but would that wear the tires down?

i have no idea what else it could be, two different mechanics have told me all suspension components including shock/coilover are fine.
But i'll come back tomorrow and ask for a redo.
thanks

boostatic

.03 is not goin to make a difference in how the car drives..you're not gonna notice that..if you think u get better response and stability from that then your dreaming..

TOE will not cause your car to pull
CAMBER & CASTER can cause your car to pull

jpciii

kcari,
From what I've read here, your steering wheel is crooked but otherwise the car seems to steer and handle fine. Is that right? And you noticed the crooked wheel after a mechanic 'fixed' a tie-rod and you got an alignment. Is that also correct? How far off-center is the steering wheel?

To clarify some things for you... front toe readings that are uneven left to right is nothing to worry about. As the car is rolling down the road, the front wheels will seek the path of least resistance... which is zero 'total toe'. They will both equally center themselves to the extent that the alignment allows... which in your case is pretty damn close to perfectly centered(that's good). Also, when a car has a 'pull', that means if you let go of the steering wheel, the car will veer off in one direction instead of driving straight. In other words, you have to constantly 'steer' the wheel in one direction in order to keep the car heading straight down the road. What you have been saying (unless I missed something) is that the steering wheel is off center and if you force it to be straight, the car veers off to the right. That's different than a pull. That's just the steering wheel being off center.

kcari

the crooked steering wheel came 2 days ago after 2 weeks- I brought my car back because it felt unstable and wandered at high speeds and when I released the steering wheel it would go left.

but after the alignment, the steering wheel positioned straight quickly goes right, so i have to turn it to the left, but i can leave it in that left angled position and the car steers great. I would say it is at least 25-40 degrees off center to the left.

the problem did not occur after my mechanic fix the tie rod, but after the alignment. i only got it because i wanted to be safe, but its been giving me a lot more headache. the car drove fine and the steering wheel was stiff and responsive, but I just wanted to be sure my toe wasnt off. i've checked and had it rechecked, and the tie rod nut is on tight. no play in the wheels whatsoever.

as far as camber and caster, my readings dont indicate that it would cause pulling?

How is it that in the past, my alignments were great but then 2 months or so I would get pulling again?
I average only 40-50 miles per day 4 days a week on relatively smooth roads. There are a few minor bumps, but I take them very slowly, and by bumps, I mean very slight uneven pavement on the freeway/exit/on ramps. but I mean if I am being affected, shouldnt the hundreds of others be affected too?

thanks again for your responses.

jpciii

ahhh, ok. I just realized too that the tie rod fix wasn't to the adjustable section, it was where the tie-rod end attaches to the knuckle (the ball-joint part of it)... anyways...

After the alignment 2 weeks ago, everything was good?... up until 2 days ago, I mean?

Sounds like something broke, but they didn't find it when you brought it back. Did they test-drive it? They should.