Sagara09

iTrader: (1)

I have a set of front S2 Camber plates on my 97 Civic Hatchback. I figured I could get a regular four wheel alignment but I was mistaken. The car is sitting on coilovers right now and I have adjusted the height since the last owner had the car. How can I have the front end aligned with the camber plates? Does A hole have to be cut in the strut towers?

Luckily I went ahead and went with the lifetime alignment.

sde780

As long as your toe is in spec camber isn't going to wear your tires significantly. Many people have run no camber kits and have seen no adverse tire wear.

gsrturbo-ek

alot of shop void the lifetime aligment option if you have modified suspension so make sure the shop you usd doesnt

canadaek

so why can't you do a 4 wheel alignment ? camber plates are to add adjustment not remove it ?

NotAJDMFanBoy

how low are you? If you're something like 1-2 inches lower, you're fine with stock UCAs. If you're slammed, you may see a little more wear on the inside edge of the tires, but not too bad.

Sagara09

iTrader: (1)

I am not slammed. The car was slammed before I got it and had the S2 plates installed. I have raised it and I want everything to be 0 on the alignment.

98civdx

Why in the hell would you ever want that?! Your going to make the car handle like ****.


Some camber is a GOOD thing.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Arg. Really Why is that?
I just got mine aligned with these specs as recommended by Progress.
Front camber -.75 to -1.50 degrees
Front toe .06” to .13” toe in (total)
Rear camber -1.50 to -2.00 degrees
Rear toe .06” to .13” toe in (total)

jbpnoman

I'm still curious what motard told you that you couldn't get your car aligned. I have a similar fully adjustable system, and the local Merchant's did it for me in about 30 minutes after pulling it in. They didn't even charge me for the "specialty" alignment.

Also, there is no such thing as a lifetime alignment. Read the fine print.

98civdx

it's for as long as you own the car. I have one, and have done it, like 5 times now.


So if there is no such thing, how does it work?

jbpnoman

Like I said, read the fine print. There are only about a hundred different excuses they can use to void that lifetime warranty. Also, if it only covers as long as you own the car, it isn't truly for the entire life of the car, now is it?

sde780

It covers alignments for the lifetime of the ownership of the car. Otherwise it would be stupid - everyone would just purchase a "lifetime alignment" and never pay for another alignment again...

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Lifetime = life of ownership.

B18C5-EH2

The problem is the person aligning the vehicle needs to know how to adjust those kits, and I don't mean how to loosen and tighten the bolts/allen heads.

You have to raise the car up to access and adjust the Skunk 2 kit. This means the person doing the alignment needs to note the camber readings with the car on the ground, and then what it becomes when he vehicle is raised. then they make the adjustments while the car is raised, and they do using simple math to achieve the desired settings with the car on the ground.

Example?

Let's say the camber is -2.4 on the left and -1.9 on the right with the car on the ground.

Raise the car, and let's say the settings go to +1.4 on the left and +.9 on the right because the suspension is now fully extended. (This is a rough guess, not exact.)

If we wanted to set the camber at -1.5 for both the left and right sides up front we'd need to do the math and adjust the settings while the car is in the air so that we get -1.5 after the car's lowered back down to the ground.

So in order to get -1.5 on both sides we'd need to add +.9 to the left side, and +.5 to the right side (-2.4+.9 = -1.5 and -1.9+.5 = -1.5)

So With the car in the air we'd do the math and add +.9 and +.5 to the settings, so doing the math we'd get:

+1.4 + .9 = +2.3 on left side w/car in the air
+.9 + +.5 = +1.4 on right side w/car in the air

If you do it right the camber will settle evenly @ the desired -1.5 degrees.

Most alignment monkeys just cannot figure out the simple math, and are too lazy to actually make multiple adjustments when the settings don't match after the suspension settles.

I've aligned literally hundreds of lowered Hondas and I would set settings where people asked me, but if they asked me my opinion for a street alignment that still had good tire wear and good handling I'd go with dead centered toe specs and -1.5 camber up front; -1.0 camber in the rear.

Zero camber destroys handling and offers no tire life benefits when compared to reasonable amounts of negative camber.

My 1990 Civic wagon is driven some 100 miles round trip every day with -1.7 and -1.6 camber up front and -1.0 camber in the rear, and my tires are wearing 100% dead *** evenly.

I do NOT agree with the "camber doesn't wear tires, toe does" stuff though.

There is a point where negative camber wears tires. Even with dead centered toe specs. I've seen too many people running over 2 degrees of negative camber even with perfect toe settings still getting inside edge wear on their tires.

Negative camber also greatly exaggerates tire wear when toe settings are off too. Toe settings can change over time - potholes, bushings wearing, etc. all cause toe specs to go out, and as that happens the negative camber will start amplifying the toe wear.

Sagara09

iTrader: (1)

I read the entire back page of the lifetime warranty and it states nothing about having coilovers or adjusting the suspension. It states that it is valid as long as I own the vehicle.

Also I have adjusted the front to have a little camber but not much. I just need my tow fixed.

My scion has no tow issues all the way around but a small amount of negative camber and my tires are more worn on the inside than the outer portion of the tire.

98civdx

LIFETIME OF OWNERSHIP. how do you not understand that?




<--- -2* all around, tires are wearing even. Suprises the alignment guys when I go in. lol

jbpnoman

Not entirely true. Decent hardware is capable of doing the math for you, as long as the tech knows how to use the machine correctly.

And hey, thanks all three of you for going straight to jumping on my ****. There are multiple major companies out there that call it a lifetime alignment, but they define the lifetime of ownership in the fine print as "up to X years". The two shops in my town that offer lifetime alignments consider lifetime to be 5 years. When I called out one of the general managers about it, they said that "most people don't own the same car for more than 5 years". Like I said, it's all about the fine print, but if you guys want to jump my **** for a simple statement of "read the fine print", go right ahead.

98civdx

This came from the firestone site.

"•provide a Lifetime Limited Warranty* on the alignment, which means we’ll set alignment angles on your vehicle every 6,000 miles or whenever needed, free of charge, for as long as you own it"

Notice what I have bolded.

jbpnoman

Did I say anything about Firestone? No, I didn't. Usually I wouldn't point out the obvious, but I guess I have to for you. Not every shop has the same procedures, and not every shop follows the same rules.

98civdx

I well aware not everyone is the same.

I have a lifetime alignment from Firestone, it is for the life of the ownership of the vehicle.

You can't say there is no such thing as a lifetime alignment simply becuase the shops near you considered the life of ownership to be 5 years.

jbpnoman

You quoted Firestone, so I'll go with that. Here's the fine print I told you to look for.

I'm not saying your specific shop reads it this way, but every shop I've dealt with considers an alignment to be labor required to install certain parts, even if you've already paid for the "lifetime" alignment. Thus my previous statements.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

That reads to me that If THEY have to install additional parts it is not covered. It says nothing about aftermarket parts you install of that are already on teh vehicle.

98civdx

What does this have to do with a lifetime alignment not existing?

All that says is they're going to charge me to have a camber kit, or whatever installed on the car.

That is asking them to do more then the alignment, of course they will charge you extra.

B18C5-EH2

Okay on a 92-00 Civic w/skunk2 camber kits you cannot adjust the camber unless you raise the car up. Once you raise the car up the camber angles change. What "hardware" are you referring to that could do the math for you? Do you mean "software?" I mean an alignment tech that gives two ***** can easily do the math and properly adjust the kits.

Now I'm confused. Who and what are you talking about?

98civdx

It was aimed at, Marc, myself and Sde780 becuase he said this.