The Lobster

can someone give me some sorta mental image on how the handling is going to be different?
from 19mm to 22mm

http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/tantiswa.htm

according to this it is going to be 80% stiffer...

basicly trying to decide
190 for mfactory 19mm/brace
330 for ASR/ITR 22mm/brace.

mormonboy

Ive never experienced a 19mm sway, but i can tell you that a 22mm sway on a ek hatch gets tail happy if you dont now how to drive.

when i first got it, i spun out in the rain going around a corner at 40 cuz i tapped the gas pedal around the bend.

but yeah. depends on what your goal is.

slammed_93_hatch

that is EXTREMLY simplified and pretty much useless.

The overall length of the bar, material the bar is made of, attachment points of the the bar, length o the the stright part of the bar, and the wall thickness of the bar all play a part in the stiffness.

some one posted the formula to figure it out, but i don't remember it. It is not the easiest thing in the world to figure out though

The Lobster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mormonboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ive never experienced a 19mm sway, but i can tell you that a 22mm sway on a ek hatch gets tail happy if you dont now how to drive.

when i first got it, i spun out in the rain going around a corner at 40 cuz i tapped the gas pedal around the bend.

but yeah. depends on what your goal is. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i just really want a fun street car with occassional mountain runs. I live in West Virginia so tons of lil runs.

when you say you tapped the gas pedal and you spun around why is that? rear end to stiff so no traction? so you slid around?

mormonboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Lobster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i just really want a fun street car with occassional mountain runs. I live in West Virginia so tons of lil runs.

when you say you tapped the gas pedal and you spun around why is that? rear end to stiff so no traction? so you slid around?</TD></TR></TABLE>

from my knowledge and experience, with a rear sway, it increases the side-ways spring rate in the rear when turning. what your suppose to do is keep your foot planted on the gas and accelerate all the way aroudn the whole corner.

when i lifted off the gas and tapped the brakes, the weight transfered to the front, and the rear end became lighter and thats why i spun out. Stiffer rear end + turning + braking round the turn = no no. even at pretty low speed of 40mph in the rain.

i dont think tires had much to do with it cuz i was runnin webs with 205/50/15 tires and like 80%+ tread on all 4 corners.

but yeah, someone else can prolly explain that better than i can.

numbnuts22715

i had my stock integra gsr sway, then upgraded to a 23 mm jdm type r, and it is simply amazing. It feels way better in turns and everything.
Steering response is way better.

I would definitely recommend the 22 mm, if not the 23 jdm itr.

suspendedHatch

You stiffen the rear in relation to the front, the rear loses traction first, and you oversteer when you approach the limit of adhesion.

The stiffer you go, the LESS traction you have. This is not a typo.

For the street you should have a thick front sway to match a thick rear sway (and you should have uprated springs). I have a 24mm GSR front sway and a progress 24mm adjustable rear sway on my EG. The rear is set to medium soft.

The Lobster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You stiffen the rear in relation to the front, the rear loses traction first, and you oversteer when you approach the limit of adhesion.

The stiffer you go, the LESS traction you have. This is not a typo.

For the street you should have a thick front sway to match a thick rear sway (and you should have uprated springs). I have a 24mm GSR front sway and a progress 24mm adjustable rear sway on my EG. The rear is set to medium soft.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and if you dont have a front sway yet but do have a 22mm rear would daily driving be that much harder?

Civicman86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You stiffen the rear in relation to the front, the rear loses traction first, and you oversteer when you approach the limit of adhesion.

The stiffer you go, the LESS traction you have. This is not a typo.

For the street you should have a thick front sway to match a thick rear sway (and you should have uprated springs). I have a 24mm GSR front sway and a progress 24mm adjustable rear sway on my EG. The rear is set to medium soft.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In order to make the sway bars adjustable you just need adjustable endlinks right?

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

In order to make the sway bars adjustable you just need adjustable endlinks right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no.

opeth13

When I installed my H&R race springs with stock sways my car would lift-throttle oversteer, but definitely not as quickly and effortlessly as it did with 550 lb/inch springs on all four corners, no front sway, and an ST rear sway . But my point is, you can pretty much bet with any upgraded rear sway bar if you're at the limits and you lift off of the gas the car will rotate, and it may rotate to a point that the rear is sliding out. It's scary the first time it happens, but if you get back on the gas you regain rear tracktion, how quickly you regain tracktion will depend on your suspension setup, mostly shocks & springs.

The Lobster

i have D2 coilovers.

blah...maybe ill suck it up and get teh asr kit

jonni2000

i have obx subframe, aftermarket front H bar and rear tie bar, DC rear strut bar, APC front strut bar, front ITR swaybar, rear si swaybar, custom trunk bar, rear camber kit on a 96 coupe ex, i set the rear camber to o dregee, it works pretty good, you can feel the tail going out a little bit and the head feels like it's sucking in when i use double + 5 mph of the speed limit sign to turn

The Lobster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonni2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have obx subframe, aftermarket front H bar and rear tie bar, DC rear strut bar, APC front strut bar, front ITR swaybar, rear si swaybar, custom trunk bar, rear camber kit on a 96 coupe ex, i set the rear camber to o dregee, it works pretty good, you can feel the tail going out a little bit and the head feels like it's sucking in when i use double + 5 mph of the speed limit sign to turn

</TD></TR></TABLE>

your not suppose to have 0 camber...always have lil negative...your traction must suck which is why your tail is going out

OceanStateTuning

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ha I love the simple, stright to the point answers

Circuit Star-29

I dunno if this was answered already...

To the OP: What suspension are you looking to compliment this swaybar with?

The Lobster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Circuit Star-29 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dunno if this was answered already...

To the OP: What suspension are you looking to compliment this swaybar with?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am running D2 coilovers.

Still looking for EX LCA/SWAY bar if all else fails going with the Suspension Technique.

tryign to decide 19mm MFactory or ASR brace ITR sway.

bmoua

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Lobster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am running D2 coilovers.

Still looking for EX LCA/SWAY bar if all else fails going with the Suspension Technique.

tryign to decide 19mm MFactory or ASR brace ITR sway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

once i get the money i'm going to go with the MFactory brace/rear sway bar. I seriously love the ASR/ITR sway combo but that ASR brace itself (really well made, great product) is as much as a MFactory setup by itself. The colors on the MFactory isn't all that great but i'm planning on doing a little DIY, maybe flat black to keep it low key for the socal theives ahah.

Circuit Star-29

What spring rates? What tires do you typically run? Does this car see the track?

remoer

from my knowledge of suspension and tons of research i've done. if you ever notice the spring rate on aftermarket springs/coilover on honda civics are full/half. in other words the front are 12kg and the rear are 6kg(12/F & 6kg/R) now the reason and from what i've read when you place a lg rear sway bar you want softer springs and visa versa in the front. now if as everyone knows the front sway bar are hollow and the rear are solid, this help the body roll different. so the combo of stiffer springs in the front w/a hollow/no sway bar w/ a big rear sway bar and soft spring helps the supension tuning. but again you need to see what type of suspension you're going for.
i really hope i explained it correct here's an article.

Cornering Problems and Common Solutions from a suspension article.

Springs, antisway bars, and track bars provide significant tuning opportunities. Changing any one of those components can drastically affect understeer (push) and oversteer (loose). Separating a corner into three segments (entrance, middle, and exit) provides three important reference points to analyze what the suspension is doing. For example, a car can be loose in certain parts of the corner and neutral or tight in other parts. Racers tune for good forward bite combined with an overall neutral feel. When you determines suspension changes, you should often goes by these accepted rules of thumb on road courses:

If the car is tight overall, try using a softer front antisway bar, stiffer rear springs, using softer front springs, or a combination of them all.

If the car is loose going into the corner, use a stiffer front antisway bar, a softer rear sway bar, or a combination of these solutions. If the car is loose exiting the corner, use a stiffer front antisway bar, softer rear springs, or a combination of the two.

An antisway bar behaves much like a progressive spring. That in theory, an antisway bar (front or back) should accent the outside tire in the middle of the corner. When it's right, it will help provide forward bite as the car starts to exit the corner. Be cautions against using stiffer springs in the rear when a stiffer antisway bar is really needed. The stiffer springs don't help provide as much forward bite, and braking could suffer. if you could up grade your front sway bar too.

my set up i'll be running on my 90 rex is:

23mm front sway bar(90 integra)
6kg/F springs
22mm rear swat bar(97 intrgra GSR)
4kg/R srings

i want to run 12kg/F & 10kg/R spring rates but it wouldn't be very dd friendly. lol.

Circuit Star-29

Can you site that article?

remoer

why yes i can, i live by supension and i can stop preaching it enough. lol