Honda and Acura Model Specific Forums

udog1125 · 07-20-2004, 09:59 AM

A mechanic just told me that my timing belt is broke (I'll buy that) but that the valves are now bent. How is that ?

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JDM.Accord · 07-20-2004, 10:04 AM

Uh...that's what happens when the timing belt breaks

It throws the timing so far off that it bends the valves.

arkytec · 07-20-2004, 10:18 AM

yea he is totally right about that, a friend of mine, in his civic, he was driving on the highway and the timing belt broke so he basically ended up getting the car towed, man, that shit bent up them valves kinda gangsta...the mechanic ended up charging the guy like 900 bucks for all the damage he did, at the time he wasnt all up on the motor swaps and shit, but damn, i would have got me a swap...

alb_accord · 07-20-2004, 11:00 AM

**** that. jus put a new timng belt and buy a head engine from a junk jard for $100 do a 100 valve job on the head and u done with it.

JDM.Accord · 07-20-2004, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alb_accord

**** that. jus put a new timng belt and buy a head engine from a junk jard for $100 do a 100 valve job on the head and u done with it.

No. This sorta thing is the perfect excuse for a swap

I'd stuff an H in there.

cmrvi1 · 07-20-2004, 09:58 PM

How can anyone give you a sensible answer when we don't know what year or engine you are talking about. If you want help, you've got to provide information.

alb_accord · 07-20-2004, 11:08 PM

it don't matter unless its a h22.
so if its a f22 then u can do whatever u want. just don't pay the mechanic to do the whole work.

Monkey Fing a Coconut · 07-21-2004, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmrvi1

How can anyone give you a sensible answer when we don't know what year or engine you are talking about. If you want help, you've got to provide information.

what does the year or engine have to do with it, timing belt snaps = bent valves and possibly other damage, doesnt matter what year or type of engine it happened on.....

JDM.Accord · 07-21-2004, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedbydezign

what does the year or engine have to do with it, timing belt snaps = bent valves and possibly other damage, doesnt matter what year or type of engine it happened on.....

Yeah, exactly. This is one of the times we're not gonna bitch about not enough info on the car he's posting about.

on cmrvi1

Nick H · 07-21-2004, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by udog1125

A mechanic just told me that my timing belt is broke (I'll buy that) but that the valves are now bent. How is that ?

when your timing belt breaks (unless you are one extremely lucky ****er) usually valves will still be open on 2 of the cylinders or maybe all 4 will be partially open...but as the piston comes up (as the pistons are still firing) the open valves will usually be hit by the piston and will break...this can do damage to not only the head, but the block too...generally, the pistons will be damaged as well...

good luck

Schmitey · 07-21-2004, 05:07 PM

to simplify what Nick H said I'll put it in layman's terms

timing belt= a belt that keeps your timing (you still with me here?)

no belt=no timing

no timing=bent valves/cracked pistons

bent valves/cracked pistons=you're a moron and should of changed the belt miles ago instead of having to dish out more money to fix it

Preventative maintenance is ALWAYS cheaper than fixing engine failure.

cmrvi1 · 07-21-2004, 08:19 PM

I have been working on Hondas now for over 10 years and am an ASE cetified master mechanic. How many of you have those credentials????

Everyone of you who says that valves always bend when a timing belt breaks either isn't talking about a Honda or just don't know what you're talking about.

It definately depends on the type of engine. Since so many of you do engine swaps, it's impossible to know what engine is in your car. I can't just assume you're talking about the original engine in the car.
So for the benefit of those who obviously don't know, most single cammed Honda engine DO NOT bend valves. Most twin cammed engines DO bend valves when the timing belt breaks.
I do at least 2 to 3 broken timing belts a month and NEVER have to do valves unless it's a DOHC.
So those of you who are talking smack, maybe you should do some research first, or do like I did, put in 10 years plus at Honda dealerships and maybe then you'll be able to offer other people useful (and more importantly, CORRECT) advice.

IanCT · 07-22-2004, 02:20 AM

udog1125 · 07-22-2004, 09:52 AM

Thanks for that encouragement. My 1985 Accord does have the original motor, 5 speed manual, 1.8. I had the top end done 18months ago. I am certainly a novice on these matters, however, I had the rocker arm cover off once and it is a single cam.

I would like to think a compression check would let me know if there are bent valves, but can you check that with no timing belt?

This is just a junky putz car so I dont want to invest a too much.

2+2=5 · 07-22-2004, 10:50 AM

just run a compression test, no way it will hold the compression without the seal.

Most honda have interference engine, once the timing belt snap, the piston and valve is occupying a same space.

david90 · 07-22-2004, 11:50 AM

interesting...

When u say most sohc will not have bent valve if tb breaks, which engine are u talking about? Are u saying that they are not interference engines or there is a small chance of bent valves?

Can u explain why sohc engine will not likely to have bent valves if the tb breaks?

JimBlake · 07-22-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by udog1125

I would like to think a compression check would let me know if there are bent valves, but can you check that with no timing belt?

A compression test won't work because the valves won't be opening at all. So you'll get almost nothing, even if your valves aren't bent.

Most Hondas have interference engines, but it's still dumb luck whether a piston will come up & hit a valve during the short time it takes for the camshaft to coast to a stop. What cmrvi1 says sorta makes sense, maybe a SOHC camshaft will stop more quickly??

I think the easiest way to tell is measure your valve clearances. But do it this way so you don't do any more damage...

Turn the crank AWAY from TDC. Turn the crank pulley so the TDC mark is 90 degrees away. This way all 4 pistons are at mid-stroke, NONE is at the top. Now you can spin the camshaft all day long without hitting anything.

Measure valve clearance just like normal, except use the cam sprocket to turn the camshaft. Don't turn the crank pulley.

Any valve that's bent will have much larger clearance because it isn't gonna be able to close all the way.

kkspeed · 07-22-2004, 04:58 PM

cmrvi1 is correct. The timing belt snapped on my 88 civic (1.5L SOHC) and didn't bend the valves. She ran fine after I replaced the timing belt.

cmrvi1 · 07-22-2004, 07:16 PM

It has to do with cam timing.
The valve events on DOHC engines are much more aggressive than SOHC engines,
thus the valves come much closer to the pistons.
That's why a broken belt on a DOHC usually spells disaster,

cmrvi1 · 07-22-2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by (2=2=5

Most honda have interference engine, once the timing belt snap, the piston and valve is occupying a same space.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff from????????

iam7head · 07-22-2004, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmrvi1

Where do you guys come up with this stuff from????????

College and ASE training

reidcc · 07-23-2004, 06:50 AM

OK -
Honda newbie here- I haven't bought one yet, but have been looking for a while. I take it the 2.2 liters in 90 and up Accords are DOHC?

I've looked at a few, and never even thought to look(it may even say it on top of motor), but everyone I've looked at... noone could tell me if belt had been changed or not.

Chris

93CivicDxer · 07-23-2004, 06:59 AM

nooooo not all accords are dohc

cmrvi1 · 07-23-2004, 05:49 PM

2.2L are SOHC.

If the seller can't provide proof that the belt has been replaced, then the safest thing to do is to replace it when you buy it.

Nothing worse that finding yourself in the middle of nowhere with a broken timing belt, the nearest shop is 50 miles away, and their repair estimate is $1000.00

alb_accord · 07-23-2004, 10:02 PM

hahahah that is so true. it happen to me while i was coming back from Atlantic city(got some girls there too) so i was happy. 11pm. 6 miles after the tolls my timing belt got ****ed. i had to wait there for 1 hour for the tow truck to come. then wait another 2 hours for the train to philly to come. then 4 hours later and $175 the tow truck brings my car at home.

so change that shit. and replace all the seels etc and u good to go.

yo chris... chill with the people here and u don't have to pay the mechanic to do that kind of job. u will do it ur self.

07-20-2004, 10:04 AM	#2
JDM.Accord Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yankee Stadium Posts: 4,395	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (udog1125) Uh...that's what happens when the timing belt breaks It throws the timing so far off that it bends the valves. __________________ Bronx Bombers XBL SayHalo2mygun

07-20-2004, 09:58 PM	#6
cmrvi1 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC, 28304 Posts: 268	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (udog1125) How can anyone give you a sensible answer when we don't know what year or engine you are talking about. If you want help, you've got to provide information.

07-20-2004, 11:08 PM	#7
alb_accord Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: philly, PA, USA Posts: 449	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (cmrvi1) it don't matter unless its a h22. so if its a f22 then u can do whatever u want. just don't pay the mechanic to do the whole work.

07-21-2004, 05:07 PM	#11
Schmitey Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Olathe, KS, 66061 Posts: 976	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (Nick H) to simplify what Nick H said I'll put it in layman's terms timing belt= a belt that keeps your timing (you still with me here?) no belt=no timing no timing=bent valves/cracked pistons bent valves/cracked pistons=you're a moron and should of changed the belt miles ago instead of having to dish out more money to fix it Preventative maintenance is ALWAYS cheaper than fixing engine failure. __________________ 1. "," is a comma to separate lists and thoughts. That dot "." marks a COMPLETE THOUGHT aka sentence. 2. Do you see that red dotted line under like 95% of the stuff you typed (while typing it)? That means you can't spell worth a shit and thus we won't have a damn clue what you're trying to say.

07-21-2004, 08:19 PM	#12
cmrvi1 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC, 28304 Posts: 268	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (twistedbydezign) I have been working on Hondas now for over 10 years and am an ASE cetified master mechanic. How many of you have those credentials???? Everyone of you who says that valves always bend when a timing belt breaks either isn't talking about a Honda or just don't know what you're talking about. It definately depends on the type of engine. Since so many of you do engine swaps, it's impossible to know what engine is in your car. I can't just assume you're talking about the original engine in the car. So for the benefit of those who obviously don't know, most single cammed Honda engine DO NOT bend valves. Most twin cammed engines DO bend valves when the timing belt breaks. I do at least 2 to 3 broken timing belts a month and NEVER have to do valves unless it's a DOHC. So those of you who are talking smack, maybe you should do some research first, or do like I did, put in 10 years plus at Honda dealerships and maybe then you'll be able to offer other people useful (and more importantly, CORRECT) advice.

07-20-2004, 10:18 AM	#3
arkytec Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Pollards Hill Posts: 69	yea he is totally right about that, a friend of mine, in his civic, he was driving on the highway and the timing belt broke so he basically ended up getting the car towed, man, that shit bent up them valves kinda gangsta...the mechanic ended up charging the guy like 900 bucks for all the damage he did, at the time he wasnt all up on the motor swaps and shit, but damn, i would have got me a swap...

07-20-2004, 11:00 AM	#4
alb_accord Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: philly, PA, USA Posts: 449	**** that. jus put a new timng belt and buy a head engine from a junk jard for $100 do a 100 valve job on the head and u done with it.

07-22-2004, 02:20 AM	#13
IanCT Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Vallejo, CA, United States Posts: 46	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (cmrvi1)

07-22-2004, 09:52 AM	#14
udog1125 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Jacinto, CA, USA Posts: 2	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (cmrvi1) Thanks for that encouragement. My 1985 Accord does have the original motor, 5 speed manual, 1.8. I had the top end done 18months ago. I am certainly a novice on these matters, however, I had the rocker arm cover off once and it is a single cam. I would like to think a compression check would let me know if there are bent valves, but can you check that with no timing belt? This is just a junky putz car so I dont want to invest a too much.

07-22-2004, 10:50 AM	#15
2+2=5 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: socal, US Posts: 709	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (udog1125) just run a compression test, no way it will hold the compression without the seal. Most honda have interference engine, once the timing belt snap, the piston and valve is occupying a same space.

07-22-2004, 11:50 AM	#16
david90 Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 509	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (cmrvi1) interesting... When u say most sohc will not have bent valve if tb breaks, which engine are u talking about? Are u saying that they are not interference engines or there is a small chance of bent valves? Can u explain why sohc engine will not likely to have bent valves if the tb breaks?

07-22-2004, 04:58 PM	#18
kkspeed Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Carlsbad, CA, USA Posts: 12	cmrvi1 is correct. The timing belt snapped on my 88 civic (1.5L SOHC) and didn't bend the valves. She ran fine after I replaced the timing belt.

07-22-2004, 07:16 PM	#19
cmrvi1 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC, 28304 Posts: 268	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (david90) It has to do with cam timing. The valve events on DOHC engines are much more aggressive than SOHC engines, thus the valves come much closer to the pistons. That's why a broken belt on a DOHC usually spells disaster,

07-23-2004, 06:50 AM	#22
reidcc Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fitchburg, ma, usa Posts: 14	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (iam7head) OK - Honda newbie here- I haven't bought one yet, but have been looking for a while. I take it the 2.2 liters in 90 and up Accords are DOHC? I've looked at a few, and never even thought to look(it may even say it on top of motor), but everyone I've looked at... noone could tell me if belt had been changed or not. Chris

07-23-2004, 06:59 AM	#23
93CivicDxer Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Abbeville, La, 70510 Posts: 86	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (reidcc) nooooo not all accords are dohc

07-23-2004, 05:49 PM	#24
cmrvi1 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC, 28304 Posts: 268	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (reidcc) 2.2L are SOHC. If the seller can't provide proof that the belt has been replaced, then the safest thing to do is to replace it when you buy it. Nothing worse that finding yourself in the middle of nowhere with a broken timing belt, the nearest shop is 50 miles away, and their repair estimate is $1000.00

07-23-2004, 10:02 PM	#25
alb_accord Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: philly, PA, USA Posts: 449	Re: Timing belt and bent valves? (cmrvi1) hahahah that is so true. it happen to me while i was coming back from Atlantic city(got some girls there too) so i was happy. 11pm. 6 miles after the tolls my timing belt got ****ed. i had to wait there for 1 hour for the tow truck to come. then wait another 2 hours for the train to philly to come. then 4 hours later and $175 the tow truck brings my car at home. so change that shit. and replace all the seels etc and u good to go. yo chris... chill with the people here and u don't have to pay the mechanic to do that kind of job. u will do it ur self.

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