igoita63

Just saw that the '87 Prelude Si 2.0 was moved from ITA to ITB. Can or Will it be competitive? 110hp, 114 ft-lb (stock), min weight of 2450.

Any thoughts / ideas.

Ivan

Mike_C

There was a discussion on this a while back...

edit: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=810411

granracing

The discussion mentioned above was pretty general of the moves being made. Not so much info. on the 2nd gen lude.

Ivan - thinking of building one? Can't imagine you would be since you have the CRX / car to have in ITA. I think the prelude will be competitive, but still won't be the car to have. Finding parts for the car is extremely difficult even though it is a Honda. For my suspension, I went the custom route (Leda) due to the very few options avail.

Also, the proposed move is only effects the '87 si which was only made for one year. So parts are not exactly abundent. I got very, very lucky - my wife was able to get me a free parts car with engine, ect. still in it.

The weight it a bit high, but I'm certainly not going to complain! I'm just psyched that I will have a chance - in ITA the car gets killed! If you're interested in any specific info., just let me know.

Dave

Tyson

what makes the 87 model different than other years of the same model? or is there another reason why its singled out?

Louie B.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what makes the 87 model different than other years of the same model? or is there another reason why its singled out?</TD></TR></TABLE>

IIRC, in 88 they went with the 4WS, not sure about differences between 86-87 though.

Makes me wish I kept my old 87Si, some good times were had in that car



Modified by thumpu77 at 12:11 PM 7/1/2004

igoita63

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The discussion mentioned above was pretty general of the moves being made. Not so much info. on the 2nd gen lude. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I read through that and was wondering if anyone was currently building up one for B next year of running one in A switching to B next year.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ivan - thinking of building one? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Possibly next year if my budget could afford it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can't imagine you would be since you have the CRX / car to have in ITA. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a first gen CRX. It's competative at the tight twisty tracks/sections but get blown on long straight to the Integras or 2nd gen CRX. I'm down on HP and the suspension is just better on the newer cars. I built this car last winter from my CSP car I ran for 4 years AutoXing. I'm trying to use this season to learn and get faster Road Racing. Eventually I want to build an Honda IT car that could win its class (eg. 90-93 Intergra or 88-91 CRX in ITA).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the prelude will be competitive, but still won't be the car to have. Finding parts for the car is extremely difficult even though it is a Honda. For my suspension, I went the custom route (Leda) due to the very few options avail.

Also, the proposed move is only effects the '87 si which was only made for one year. So parts are not exactly abundent. I got very, very lucky - my wife was able to get me a free parts car with engine, ect. still in it.

The weight it a bit high, but I'm certainly not going to complain! I'm just psyched that I will have a chance - in ITA the car gets killed! If you're interested in any specific info., just let me know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I really interested in what your suspension setup is (I could not find any koni, bilstien, etc.). Also what motor work have you had done an what are some of you Dyno numbers. You can email me off the list if you prefer (ivano@mindspring.com).


Ivan

bamcrxgp

Ivan I just got down watching the video from the ARRC last year. I have some new tricks for the Civic. I want to build one, again. But I have way to much invested in the GP car. You sell your CRX, I build you a Civic with the money from the CRX and I get to race it. Lets do it.

Blake

phat-S

Sauce for the goose, errr C car ... Ivan, Blake, build an A car. Actually, if you guys come across a front bumper and support, I got some 2g suspension bits I'll trade.

Jake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what makes the 87 model different than other years of the same model? or is there another reason why its singled out?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was the only car that was in the classification request. If I ask to classify a 2001 Honda Civic, they will classify it. The SCCA doesn't really care if the are other identical models. For the record 88 marked a new generation of the prelude (one that looked pretty much identical). I believe the 85-87 Prelude Si's are all the same, and could probably be added to the spec line if the SCCA was asked.

http://www.absoluteprelude.com/history.html

Jake

Here's Dave's in action.

http://www.racerjake.com/Video_files/DavePass.wmv

I don't know why he likes this video so much.

luder94-ChrisA

iTrader: (1)

Link no work

Jake

It should, does this work better?

http://home.comcast.net/~fishj...s.wmv

CRX Lee

The ITB 'Lude seems to be getting some attention as I have had several calls about doing Koni suspensions on them. I have a work order on my desk right now for the first one. It will be interesting to see how that car shakes out in B. I would think B in the Southeast would be a tough nut, especially at Road Atlanta where that red Volvo seems to be the "horse for the course".

THe other car I have been getting a lot of calls for suspension lately is the ITB. Suzuki Swift which is light and very power capable.

granracing

The 86' si and '87 si use different engines. The '87 uses the old accord engine. This makes things even tougher if you need to replace the engine. Can't simply use another year's engine. Maybe SCCA would accept the '86 si engine, but that would take a written request. Not sure what other differences there are...

Suspension - Karl at Racer's Edge who sells Leda suspensions. Not as big here in the states, but pretty big in European racing and high end sports cars. I can't even begin to say how great of an experience dealing with Karl was! I was the first suspension they've built for the 2nd gen lude, therefore it was a custom job. Everything was matched to the lude's suspension unit, so it was just a matter of swapping units and springs. Karl and Leda really helped me out with the set-up of the suspension and asked a lot of questions about the types of tracks I drive on, how bumpy, my driving style, ect.

Ivan - I'll send you an e-mail...
Dave

Jake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 86' si and '87 si use different engines. The '87 uses the old accord engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I actually think they both use the same engine. From what I understand, the Accord Lxi and the Prelude Si shared engines in both 86 and 87. That 1955cc 12V was called the BT in 86, and the A20A3 in 87 and 88. The 86 and 87 engines appear to be identical in all except the name. In 88 the A20A3 got several mods (intake, ecu, +.5 compression ratio) to get it from 110 to 120 hp. Since the Prelude got a redesign it never saw the A20A3 improvements.

Since I'm not even a Honda driver, if I'm someone please stop me.

Dave, it might be worth your while to try to hunt down a 88-89 Accrod LXi ECU, since it may have been remapped for the higher compression ratio and freer flowing intake (and exhaust). I'm willing to bet it will fit in the 87 ECU box.

igoita63

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bamcrxgp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ivan I just got down watching the video from the ARRC last year. I have some new tricks for the Civic. I want to build one, again. But I have way to much invested in the GP car. You sell your CRX, I build you a Civic with the money from the CRX and I get to race it. Lets do it.

Blake</TD></TR></TABLE>

After going over my budget for this month, I can't even afford to the the double @ Barber. My next race will either be the double @ Kershaw or the HC @ RoadA. We'll have to talk about the Civic idea, I think Rob still has a dead one at his shop. Maybe in the next year of two I'll be dicing it up with Scott and Renee in ITC. The prelude could be the ticket in B though. Still doing my research.

Ivan

Catch 22

Lack of aftermarket support will hurt the Prelude. At least short term you'd be on the phone getting alot of custom parts made. Being on the leading edge of a new car can kind of suck. Note the crap Blake and I went through last year just to raise the rev limiter on a dual point car... It sucked.

My suggestion, build the C car, but never let Blake drive it. At least not in races where I'm entered.

granracing

I agree that I'm doing it the hard way. Not only are very, very few other people driving it to learn from, but there are little aftermarket parts to choose from. But if you're persistant, it is do-able.

The fun thing is that it is a unique car in its class. That's pretty cool! Guess I just like doing things the hard way.

Now back to the '88-89 Lxi ECU into the prelude...wonder if it would work. (Yeah, this is an example of not having the benefit of other's testing and tuning for road racing)

Knestis

It's picking nits but since you are working on the bleeding edge of Prelude development, don't forget that the IT rules require that you retain the OEM ECU housing. That's implicit in Jake's post but it might bear repeating.

K

granracing

Yup, I know. But the OEM ECU housing is pretty darn big so I am pretty sure the other one would fit inside of it and could be used legally.

Jake

Let me suggest getting on all the best Accord Boards and try to figure out exactly what Honda did to get an extra 10hp out of the A20A3 in 1988. That would be a really good start.

MrMike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Let me suggest getting on all the best Accord Boards and try to figure out exactly what Honda did to get an extra 10hp out of the A20A3 in 1988. That would be a really good start.</TD></TR></TABLE>

slightly higher compression, IAB intake manifold, and theres a few other small differences

Jake

The slightly higher compression (.5) is allowed in the IT rules. I'd love to find out what the other small differences are. Do you know if the ECU was remapped to take advantage of the increased compression?

Capt Slow

...the proposed move is only effects the '87 si which was only made for one year.

Dave,
I always thought the '86 si and '87 si are identical. That would be news to me.
But I agree that performance parts are difficult to find. I'm still trying to come up with a good track suspension .

I'd still like to know more about your new Koni suspension though...

Ghetto Civic HX

Did you just responded to a thread exactly 7 years old or is there a rip in space/time?