Nick M

Interesting.

Someone did this on SHO maybe 5 years ago. I dont remember the details of his build up, but it ended up running like crap and eventually self destructing from revving out to 7500, the F bottom end didnt seem to like it, the motor didnt last too long

why not just do a turbo f22 and call it a day? or a turbo h23?

infinatenexus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you right with both things, it will except forged pistons and rods, or you can just stak stock and see how much you can squeeze out.. i remeber seeing some sick dyno sheets with a guy running only an fmu i think up to 18psi on a stock sohc. and i will be tuning with a AEM ems, and have not yet decided on a boost level.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have seen a bone stock F22 out of a junk yard put down 323 hp @18 PSI

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow you have definatly covered your angles</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks, i definatly did alot of research b4 i did this<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeHatchH22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah he did, im impressed.
So does the h22a1 have the same crank that would fit? 55mm? So the deck hieght is the same as, oh say a h22a1 block? And do you know if the f22 has balance shafts? This block may be just what the doctor ordered. There could be a way to add the oil squirters off the h22 onto the f22 right? that would be pretty cool to get the block the same specs as the h22a1 minus the FRM, balance shafts, hydrolic tensioner and the need to sleeve.
sounds good to me!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

well don't get your hopes up, its not running yet. f22 h22a1 and h23a1 have 50mm main crank journals and all have the same deck height. they have the same balancer shaft setup that is in the h22 and h23. and im not sure if you can safly bore a f22 or f23 to 87 and still; be in the cast iron material, i was never concerned with boring or changing the pistons so i didn't look into the limits, and or the different pistons available at each bore size. The F23 has the 55mm crank journals, like the 98+ h22a4 crank. as far as the f23 deck height, im not sure, if my notes are correct according to the rod and stroke, the deck height should be the same, but info on the f23 is hard to find.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nick M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting.

Someone did this on SHO maybe 5 years ago. I dont remember the details of his build up, but it ended up running like crap and eventually self destructing from revving out to 7500, the F bottom end didnt seem to like it, the motor didnt last too long

why not just do a turbo f22 and call it a day? or a turbo h23?</TD></TR></TABLE>


One thing is for sure there is no way in hell im going to rev it to 7500, thats just plain stupid and asking for trouble. Just because you put a vtec head on a block, that doesn't mean the bottom end was designed to rev to the head capabilities.

I really don't know how its going to run, or if its going to eat itself. but as far as it goes right now, i kind of wanted something to toy with while i build my real motor. to me this seemed like a cheap good experement. i guess if it does work then no one can say "no you can't bolt a vtec head to a sohc block" it will be "yes it can be done with work", or "yes it can be done but doesn't last".

I went with the f22 as well because it had iron for sleves, and would allow me to get to the 9.0:1 CR i wanted to boost. i just don't like the idea of ******* up a good frm block because the ring landings decide to blow. like i saif before f series are a dime a dozen. could i have boosted a stock F, yes. could i boost a stock h23, yes. but i have a turbo mani for a h22 + cheap f block at 9:1 CR + AEM EMS seemed like worth a try to me.

But i just decided to try something different. I'm one of those stupid kids thats Always trying to do stuff that everyone said can't be done. You might be right nick, but we will see.

CHK4TIX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But i just decided to try something different. I'm one of those stupid kids thats Always trying to do stuff that everyone said can't be done. You might be right nick, but we will see.
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I give prelittlelude a , If there wasn't someone out there willing to try different things to achieve more hp (the cheaper the better), then we would all be driving stock cars and we wouldn't need a site like H-T to help us learn how to do it our selves.

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHK4TIX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I give prelittlelude a , If there wasn't someone out there willing to try different things to achieve more hp (the cheaper the better), then we would all be driving stock cars and we wouldn't need a site like H-T to help us learn how to do it our selves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey thanks keith, .. well as soon as i get my camera back i will post up all the pics, i am waiting on the head gasket now, then time for reassembly.

thehondaguru

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHK4TIX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I give prelittlelude a , If there wasn't someone out there willing to try different things to achieve more hp (the cheaper the better), then we would all be driving stock cars and we wouldn't need a site like H-T to help us learn how to do it our selves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I 'm with you. I widh I had the time to mess with stuff like this

prjct92eh2

in for updates

H22Si

do the quench pads on the head and pistons "match up" closely, as far as surface area for each? also, do you see any potential alignment problems with the valves and their corresponding reliefs in the pistons? are the valve angles the same? what's the compression height your attempting to attain?

awesome thread btw

drumking15

yep...hehe tom's lil helper here...and problem solver sometimes...aka waterpump right tom...when it doubt take the rob and tom method....beat one to **** and see how it comes apart...then take it apart the correct way w/a pulley puller and some carefull pressin action!

as i remember the quelch pads do line up...but im not 100% positive....id have to take a drive to his house and pull it apart and check...the valves and pistons we already clayed...no interference....which solves all the valve angle problems....i cant wait to see this thing run... to tommy j, my best bud!

from pullin this motor out w/ a socket set and knife w/ our bare hands...till this thing roars on boost...ive been so excited!!! just wish i could be as invoative w/ some b-series stuff...but heh who likes h-series anyways...hehe jk tom ttyl

99spanishGT

so how much does one of these blocks cost???

Greyout

I think this is some good work, nice job.

However, I think that it is more effective to use an H23 short block. At least you get some displacement as a trade for the worse rod/stroke.

I think h23 short blocks go for around $150-$500.

I want to crank up the boost and run till it goes, and you can get a bunch of these blocks, then

timesnap

This is what its all about. Trying new stuff, keep us up on pics and info. Cant wait to see how it will run w/ boost.

drumking15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think this is some good work, nice job.

However, I think that it is more effective to use an H23 short block. At least you get some displacement as a trade for the worse rod/stroke.

I think h23 short blocks go for around $150-$500.

I want to crank up the boost and run till it goes, and you can get a bunch of these blocks, then </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea but we got this motor $100 w/ good bearings! not spun ones so common to the h23...also you are quick to forget thee great f22 sleeves.....made of iron! so we suspect they will take boost ever so graiously...mostly the reasoning behind this idea...boost + f22 + h22 head = hopefully mad pull!!!

also when you drop the ring landings in a h series you have completly ruined the sleeves and therefore toasted the motor and its frm sleeves....gone to junk w/o replacing the existing sleeves....w/ the f22 toast a ring landing and we can overbore and get some bigger pistons....making it somewhat salvagebale....but regardless its easy just to swap in another....belive me f22 blocks are a lot cheaper than h23's....and are far more common due to the sohc motor factor

99spanishGT

hmm makes me want to put my h23 head on a f22 block and junkyard boost it! if it blows o well!!lol

drumking15

ya but h23 heads flow crap....and wouldnt have the fun of vtec and boost

madcatz

so uhh looking for updated pix and satus of this project? Would love to see if everything is capable of running right....what Axels/Tranny you plan on running? Would a H tranny bolt up to the F block?

see_our_vtec

cough*pics*cough

drift

i'm still wondering what he did with the compression roofs on the head, since the bore of the H22 @87mm obviously don't match the F22's 85mm bore.

prelittlelude

yeah like rob said (drumking), when we clayed the valve releifs lined up realy well. just by looking at the piston the valve reliefs "seem" to extend almost all the way to the outer edge of the piston. and from what i can tell the valve reliefs are in the same plave that they would be on the h22 pistons. the fact that they seem to extend all the way to the edge of the piston is the fact that the piston is at 85mm bore and the valve reliefs are in the same spot as the h22 which is at 87mm bore. but when i clayed for the first time, the clay barely got touched. but after having the block decked and then claying agian, it was clear the valve reliegs lined up well.

and i have tryed to get to a 9:1 CR, after decking the block the pistons come out of the block very little, but thats ok as if you have ever seen an h22 head there is plenty of space for the piston to extend into the combution chamber. agian all this stuff can be avoided if one was willing to change the pistons, i DIDN'T want to touch the bottom end. one could chose any piston that could reach the appropriate compresion ratio. also i think some piston manufactures list information about their pistons valve releif and valve angles, but agian i didn't look into it becasue it was never a problem

which brings me to a question, does anyone know the stock or limit to pistont o valve clearence? or is the limit as close as you can get without hitting?

i payed 100 for the block, we pulled it out our self with a knife and socket set.

yeah ideally i would love to boost on a h block, but i love them so much, and i can't bear the thought of just boosting til the ringlandings go, then runing the whole block because the FRM got all scored up, then the only way to use that block agian is to have it sleved. but if your lucky and blow the f22 ring landings, then you can just over bore, i think the max over bore limit is 1mm, and i wouldn't want to pay 200-500 for a block to just detroy. good h blocks in my experience are few and far between and if you find one, its either got a spun bearing or they want some serious $$. and as far as displacement i will still have the same as the h22

interesting that you bring this up, if you did use an h23 head you DON'T have to plug ANYTHING, the two oil drains that exist on the h22 head that need to be pluged are NON EXISTANT on the H23 head, i have a pis of this at work and will post it up, im still dying to get my digital camera back,

well the h23 head flows alrgiht as far as im concerned, but it would be mad easy to tune witht he lack of vtec, anthony make 423 whp , but i don't know what head work he has done

im going to run the stock axles unless they break, and the stock M2F4 tranny with a better clutch. yes H and F trannys bolt up to each others block. and as far as things go , i see no reason why it wouldn't work

yes i know, everyone is dying for pics, im trying to get my camera back, grr. i have alot of them i think, so what would you be most interested in seeing? ill tell you the first time i had it all bolted together with the timing belt on and everything it was SEXY!!

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm still wondering what he did with the compression roofs on the head, since the bore of the H22 @87mm obviously don't match the F22's 85mm bore.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well you would be surprised, if you place the f22 head gasket on the h22 head, its not that far off, its DEFINATLY not a full 2mm smaller, maybe 1mm at most. i don't think that it lines up perfect, but i won't know how it runs until i try it. im almost positive that if someone were to bore the f22 out to 86mm, then the head and block would line up just right. from me playing with the head gaskets i don;t think the head is al the way out to a 87, but im going to measure it so i can post some proof positive.

madcatz

sweetness dude...I thought only H series stuff was swappable. Best o luck on your project, and I wish you well....ill be watching like a hawk for pix

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spanishlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm makes me want to put my h23 head on a f22 block and junkyard boost it! if it blows o well!!lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

here are some pics, these wern't mine, but stuff i came accross when doing rsearch, i think Gimmpygreenaccord was his name, he took these pics, even though this <u>isn't an h22a1 head</u>, is shows you that with the h23 head you won't have to plug anything where as on the h22 you have to.

but these ill put up for reference:

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

and the f23 is sohc, but you run into a problem now that i think of it. the f23 block utualizes 55mm mains, so unless you got a 98+ h22 crank and put it in there, then there would be no go, unless you wanted a 97mm stroker vtec </TD></TR></TABLE>


what is the stroke of the f22/h23? i thought the f23 was the same as these w/86 mm bore. is it a combo of bigger bore and stroke. if so, then using the stock f23 parts would work fine.

what years/models did the f23 come in?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well you would be surprised, if you place the f22 head gasket on the h22 head, its not that far off, its DEFINATLY not a full 2mm smaller, maybe 1mm at most. i don't think that it lines up perfect, but i won't know how it runs until i try it. im almost positive that if someone were to bore the f22 out to 86mm, then the head and block would line up just right. from me playing with the head gaskets i don;t think the head is al the way out to a 87, but im going to measure it so i can post some proof positive.</TD></TR></TABLE>

honda makes the head gaskets a little bigger then the bore. stock h22 head gasket is 88 mm. i know this cause i mic'd it when i was boring a stock gasket on 89 mm bore. using a f23 gasket will give you a flase reading this way. your going to have to measure the head to get exact sizes.


Modified by fastludeh22 at 11:03 AM 2/25/2004

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

i can never get pics to show up right...if someone can host them for me that would be great.

thehondaguru

I just keep on learning and learning stuff from this post everyday. Keep up the good work man!