how to: H23VTEC, H23 VTEC, H23/VTEC (search friendly)
05-28-2003, 06:57 PM
#26
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (AndyD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't understand then. What is the point of making an H23 VTEC?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
more low end torque, same thing as an LS/VTEC or B20/VTEC
I don't understand then. What is the point of making an H23 VTEC?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
more low end torque, same thing as an LS/VTEC or B20/VTEC
05-28-2003, 09:40 PM
#27
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (Boosted97Lude)
If you're going NA with an H23, what pistons would be best to get? JE H23 9:1 or 10:1.......OR JE H22 pistons 9:1, 10:1, or 11:5:1. This is with stock rods...or would it be pointless to get aftermarket pistons until you get aftermarket rods?
05-29-2003, 09:00 AM
#28
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (H23A1LUDE)
The question I have is this. I'm doing this swap, but I'm building the engine up. Going to look at boosting over 500. I was gonna run JE pistons 87.5mm 9:1 comp
and crower rods. From the research I have done on this site. Oil Squirters are ONLY needed if your trying to hop up the stock internals. If you switch the rods and pistons they disperse heat better and therefore the oil squirters are pointless. Honda had a problem with their stock rods and pistons not getting rid of the heat so they just installed a cheap fix. That's why h23's dont have them but the hottor running h22's do. I'm also going to run Darton Sleeves.
One question is should I switch to 8.5 comp pistons? or keep the 9.1? Any info is appreciated and this post has great info on doing this swap. Thanks guys.
dom
and crower rods. From the research I have done on this site. Oil Squirters are ONLY needed if your trying to hop up the stock internals. If you switch the rods and pistons they disperse heat better and therefore the oil squirters are pointless. Honda had a problem with their stock rods and pistons not getting rid of the heat so they just installed a cheap fix. That's why h23's dont have them but the hottor running h22's do. I'm also going to run Darton Sleeves.
One question is should I switch to 8.5 comp pistons? or keep the 9.1? Any info is appreciated and this post has great info on doing this swap. Thanks guys.
dom
05-29-2003, 01:43 PM
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (AndyD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't understand then. What is the point of making an H23 VTEC?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
more displacement.
I'll let ya'll know how it goes, I'm about to do this swap. I'm keeping my head that's "for sale", and I'm putting an H23 short block on the car. I have a friend who knows what he's doing to do the swap with me. So, good luck to anyone else trying to do it, or congrats on ppl who have. I'll keep ya updated work begins this Saturday.
I don't understand then. What is the point of making an H23 VTEC?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
more displacement.
I'll let ya'll know how it goes, I'm about to do this swap. I'm keeping my head that's "for sale", and I'm putting an H23 short block on the car. I have a friend who knows what he's doing to do the swap with me. So, good luck to anyone else trying to do it, or congrats on ppl who have. I'll keep ya updated work begins this Saturday.
05-29-2003, 05:21 PM
#31
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (Flh22chic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flh22chic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
more displacement.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not for displacement really, it's for stroke. The larger stroke does create more displacement, but it's the stroke that brings the torque band up and makes it a really fun engine to drive.
I have to stress piston selection here. You have an H22a sized combustion chamber, but you have a H23 stroke. So therefore any H22a piston you put in an H23 VTEC will have a HIGHER COMPRESSION RATIO because of the displacement. Like this
USDM H22a piston 10:1 = becomes approx 10.4:1
JDM H22a piston 10.6:1 = becomes approx 11:1
JDM H22a type-s 11:1 = becomes approx 11.5:1
So pay attention, consequently an H23 piston in an H23 VTEC is more like 9.3:1 CR cause of the larger H22a combustion chamber
Here was a dyno of my built motor....the hp is too low...but the torque is nice and high 203 and 160.
Like you don't see 140lb ft of torque at 2000rpms very often
more displacement.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not for displacement really, it's for stroke. The larger stroke does create more displacement, but it's the stroke that brings the torque band up and makes it a really fun engine to drive.
I have to stress piston selection here. You have an H22a sized combustion chamber, but you have a H23 stroke. So therefore any H22a piston you put in an H23 VTEC will have a HIGHER COMPRESSION RATIO because of the displacement. Like this
USDM H22a piston 10:1 = becomes approx 10.4:1
JDM H22a piston 10.6:1 = becomes approx 11:1
JDM H22a type-s 11:1 = becomes approx 11.5:1
So pay attention, consequently an H23 piston in an H23 VTEC is more like 9.3:1 CR cause of the larger H22a combustion chamber
Here was a dyno of my built motor....the hp is too low...but the torque is nice and high 203 and 160.
Like you don't see 140lb ft of torque at 2000rpms very often
05-30-2003, 08:24 AM
#32
Re: H23VTEC how to: (satan_srv)
do you know what mods were done to that enige SATAN?
its nice to see the engine make consisten power all the way up to 7000, because mine only revs up to 7400. there is no need to rev it higher than that i'm glad the dyno shows that.
good numbers though, and of course good torque
i've seen boosted B series with less tourque than that
one final thing--- lets get an H22 dyno next to H23V dyno to compare
its nice to see the engine make consisten power all the way up to 7000, because mine only revs up to 7400. there is no need to rev it higher than that i'm glad the dyno shows that.
good numbers though, and of course good torque
i've seen boosted B series with less tourque than thatone final thing--- lets get an H22 dyno next to H23V dyno to compare
05-30-2003, 09:52 AM
#33
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (H23vtecEG)
That was my old motor. sorry thats 204 and 161 if you round up.
Well I will dyno my new engine in a week or two and I can plot a side by side. Basically the new motor is the old motor with an H22a crank a little higher comp pistons but essentially the same head. and bored out to 2.3L
It would be a good comparison since they are almost similar build
Well I will dyno my new engine in a week or two and I can plot a side by side. Basically the new motor is the old motor with an H22a crank a little higher comp pistons but essentially the same head. and bored out to 2.3L
It would be a good comparison since they are almost similar build
06-03-2003, 01:01 PM
#34
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (satan_srv)
I love you guys I've looked alot of hours on the net and on the phone trying to find this info. I'm going to get started the swap today. I'll keep you filled in. Thanks,
LudeZex
One minute man, ten second car......I thought they all liked it fast!
LudeZex
One minute man, ten second car......I thought they all liked it fast!
06-03-2003, 03:18 PM
#35
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Re: H23VTEC how to: (H23vtecEG)
[QUOTE=H23vtecEG]do you know what mods were done to that enige SATAN?
QUOTE]
I think the specs are in this thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=441374 where I show all the pics of when I killed it
QUOTE]
I think the specs are in this thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=441374 where I show all the pics of when I killed it
06-03-2003, 05:11 PM
#36
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Here's my situation: I have an H22 waiting to go into my Si. I was thinking about keeping the H23 short block, and building it up for an H23 VTEC. I'm looking at:
Forged Pistons
Stronger Rods
Balancing rotating assembly
AFAIK, this should all help with heat soak from the lack of oil squirters, but this still doesn't do anything for the lower redline. Redline is about your R/S ratio, right? getting forged pistons and stronger rods doesn't change your maximum piston speed, the motor will still tear itself up not far past 6500 RPM. I really hope I'm wrong about this. I'm looking to keep the stock H22 redline (~7600), but it seems like this won't be possible with the H23 geometry. If I'm not mistaken the JDM H23 VTEC also has a lower redline, no?
Forged Pistons
Stronger Rods
Balancing rotating assembly
AFAIK, this should all help with heat soak from the lack of oil squirters, but this still doesn't do anything for the lower redline. Redline is about your R/S ratio, right? getting forged pistons and stronger rods doesn't change your maximum piston speed, the motor will still tear itself up not far past 6500 RPM. I really hope I'm wrong about this. I'm looking to keep the stock H22 redline (~7600), but it seems like this won't be possible with the H23 geometry. If I'm not mistaken the JDM H23 VTEC also has a lower redline, no?
06-04-2003, 08:09 AM
#37
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ar5enal, you are incorrect about the engine "tearing it self up" over 6500 RPM.
I personally rev my engine to 8000-8200+ RPM (depending on the cam profiles I am running) My rod ratio is a low 1.44.
I personally rev my engine to 8000-8200+ RPM (depending on the cam profiles I am running) My rod ratio is a low 1.44.
06-04-2003, 05:03 PM
#38
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Re: (2point6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ar5enal, you are incorrect about the engine "tearing it self up" over 6500 RPM.
I personally rev my engine to 8000-8200+ RPM (depending on the cam profiles I am running) My rod ratio is a low 1.44.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
come on now, he is absolutely correct stroke of the motor is the biggest driver of redline and where you make power
you may rev that high, but that's cause you're willing to risk it then fine, but there is no way that's where your peak power is. I wouldn't recommend that it's safe to rev an H23 crank that high.
Let's not forget you are using a custom forged crank, which would hold out on conditions that would snap an H23 crank.
I personally rev my engine to 8000-8200+ RPM (depending on the cam profiles I am running) My rod ratio is a low 1.44.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
come on now, he is absolutely correct stroke of the motor is the biggest driver of redline and where you make power
you may rev that high, but that's cause you're willing to risk it then fine, but there is no way that's where your peak power is. I wouldn't recommend that it's safe to rev an H23 crank that high.
Let's not forget you are using a custom forged crank, which would hold out on conditions that would snap an H23 crank.
06-04-2003, 08:57 PM
#39
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Right. I don't mean that revving the H23 crank to 6800 RPM will result in catastrophic engine failure (despite my comment) but there's a reason besides cam profiles and oil squirters for why the H23 redline is a full 1100 RPM lower.
To make an analogy, what would you say to someone who came in saying he wanted to spin his H22 to 8700 RPM? Not going to happen without some serious engine work. This is essentially the same thing, and I'm not even sure that H23 cranks are forged, like the H22's. I remember a thread on here about this.
All in all, it's a give and take. Everyone modding their engines does so with the knowledge that they may be significantly decreasing engine life. What I wanted to know was whether forged internals and a good buildup (including balancing the rotating ***'y) makes you all feel safer about spinning an H23 to 7600. I guess this is more a matter of opinion, because there are those who would say to spin a stock H23 that high...
To make an analogy, what would you say to someone who came in saying he wanted to spin his H22 to 8700 RPM? Not going to happen without some serious engine work. This is essentially the same thing, and I'm not even sure that H23 cranks are forged, like the H22's. I remember a thread on here about this.
All in all, it's a give and take. Everyone modding their engines does so with the knowledge that they may be significantly decreasing engine life. What I wanted to know was whether forged internals and a good buildup (including balancing the rotating ***'y) makes you all feel safer about spinning an H23 to 7600. I guess this is more a matter of opinion, because there are those who would say to spin a stock H23 that high...
06-05-2003, 08:32 AM
#40
Re: (ar5enal)
i have a p13 running the h23V and i redlined all the time with no porblems. after a 160K mile bottom end decided to blow the rings, probably from the lack of oil squiters i decided to rebuild.
i installed the jdm type-S pistons and the oil squiters yesterday and i took some pix of the rebuild in the process i'll show you guys in a month.
what im trying to say is that 7400 redline for the h23 was fine with me or maybe i got lucky, but it was all noise up there no power. the new engine i'll be reving to 7200 and i know the h23 can take that all day.
i installed the jdm type-S pistons and the oil squiters yesterday and i took some pix of the rebuild in the process i'll show you guys in a month.
what im trying to say is that 7400 redline for the h23 was fine with me or maybe i got lucky, but it was all noise up there no power. the new engine i'll be reving to 7200 and i know the h23 can take that all day.
06-05-2003, 09:12 AM
#41
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Re: (satan_srv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
come on now, he is absolutely correct stroke of the motor is the biggest driver of redline and where you make power
you may rev that high, but that's cause you're willing to risk it then fine, but there is no way that's where your peak power is. I wouldn't recommend that it's safe to rev an H23 crank that high.
Let's not forget you are using a custom forged crank, which would hold out on conditions that would snap an H23 crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No offense man, but did you actually read my post? I never stated anything about him being incorrect about anything other than the engine "tearing itself up".
Next, the cam profiles I have (in the past) run have helped increase my peak power up to 8000 RPM easily, but these are race only profiles and I use my car for daily driving. Driveability suffers greatly with the larger cams. Currently, the "smaller" cams I currently use make peak power at 7600 RPM.
Also, you are wrong about my crank. It is a stock h22a crank that has been welded. I also am using (In another engine that is reved equally as high) a stock 97 F23 crank that has a 97mm stroke.
come on now, he is absolutely correct stroke of the motor is the biggest driver of redline and where you make power
you may rev that high, but that's cause you're willing to risk it then fine, but there is no way that's where your peak power is. I wouldn't recommend that it's safe to rev an H23 crank that high.
Let's not forget you are using a custom forged crank, which would hold out on conditions that would snap an H23 crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No offense man, but did you actually read my post? I never stated anything about him being incorrect about anything other than the engine "tearing itself up".
Next, the cam profiles I have (in the past) run have helped increase my peak power up to 8000 RPM easily, but these are race only profiles and I use my car for daily driving. Driveability suffers greatly with the larger cams. Currently, the "smaller" cams I currently use make peak power at 7600 RPM.
Also, you are wrong about my crank. It is a stock h22a crank that has been welded. I also am using (In another engine that is reved equally as high) a stock 97 F23 crank that has a 97mm stroke.
06-06-2003, 06:14 AM
#42
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From my knowledge, I'm told that the H22 Crank is the best crank to use in this swap/frankenstein. Is that true?
Also, can I ask what you guys think on what the best way to start at this is with the H23 block? I have the H22a head with skunk2 cams, adjustable cam gears, valve springs, and retainers, adn ferrea valves. I'm getting the head port-n-polished, but I'm nto sure where to go for it.
I also am building the block, getting it sleeved, but I'm nto sure where I should go for that either, or what sleeves to go with. Eagle/Crower rods? JE/Wiesco pistons? etc...
Any input is helpful thanks!
Also, can I ask what you guys think on what the best way to start at this is with the H23 block? I have the H22a head with skunk2 cams, adjustable cam gears, valve springs, and retainers, adn ferrea valves. I'm getting the head port-n-polished, but I'm nto sure where to go for it.
I also am building the block, getting it sleeved, but I'm nto sure where I should go for that either, or what sleeves to go with. Eagle/Crower rods? JE/Wiesco pistons? etc...
Any input is helpful thanks!
06-06-2003, 06:22 AM
#43
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Re: (Flh22chic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flh22chic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From my knowledge, I'm told that the H22 Crank is the best crank to use in this swap/frankenstein. Is that true? </TD></TR></TABLE>
then what would you gain if you still used an H22 crank?
i am partial to the GE sleeves myself, i'v had good luck with them in my built turbo H22, plus i have a few other GE products as well, all are top quality.
then what would you gain if you still used an H22 crank?
i am partial to the GE sleeves myself, i'v had good luck with them in my built turbo H22, plus i have a few other GE products as well, all are top quality.
06-07-2003, 04:02 PM
#44
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Re: (Boosted97Lude)
Anyone answer my question of what my compression would be if I did this mod on my h23 built bottom with je 9.5:1 pistons? Im using h23 crower rods bored 20 over
06-07-2003, 04:54 PM
#45
Re: (ludesleep)
i installed oil squirters on the h23 today and what a pain in the ***. the type-S pistons would hit the freaking things and the crank would scrape them. i took a long screw driver and bent them away from the pistons and crank. not pointing at the right direstion but nothing is hitting so far. i spun the crank around a couple of times and things spin freely and nothing is scraping. i took many pix but im going on vacation i wont be back till july 1st to show you guys.
06-08-2003, 10:50 AM
#46
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If one has an H22a block, could an H23a1 crankshaft/rods be used in said block? (rods would be fitted with o.e. type-s pistons. Also, will block need to be sleeved if over-sized o.e. type-s pistons are used? I know it will need to be bored/honed, but is sleeving necessary? Thanks.
-Mike
btw,
any stroker kits out for the H22a motor?
-Mike
btw,
any stroker kits out for the H22a motor?
06-08-2003, 05:58 PM
#47
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Re: (JDM BB2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM BB2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If one has an H22a block, could an H23a1 crankshaft/rods be used in said block? (rods would be fitted with o.e. type-s pistons. Also, will block need to be sleeved if over-sized o.e. type-s pistons are used? I know it will need to be bored/honed, but is sleeving necessary? Thanks.
-Mike
btw,
any stroker kits out for the H22a motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
JUN makes a stroker kit.
You don't need to sleeve if you use oversize type-s. H23 has the same FRM liner. Ypu have to have your H23 rods re bushed to use a floating wrist pin though on the type-s pistons
-Mike
btw,
any stroker kits out for the H22a motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
JUN makes a stroker kit.
You don't need to sleeve if you use oversize type-s. H23 has the same FRM liner. Ypu have to have your H23 rods re bushed to use a floating wrist pin though on the type-s pistons
06-08-2003, 09:14 PM
#48
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Re: (satan_srv)
I have H23Vtec and it runs fine. I rev mine to 8000 rpm. I have the H22A pistons in it and shaved the head .020 over. never had any problem for about 6 months. Car pulls like son of a bitch. Love driving it. It's nothing like my ls/vtec turbo civic.
06-09-2003, 03:21 AM
#49
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Re: (2point6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No offense man, but did you actually read my post? I never stated anything about him being incorrect about anything other than the engine "tearing itself up".
Next, the cam profiles I have (in the past) run have helped increase my peak power up to 8000 RPM easily, but these are race only profiles and I use my car for daily driving. Driveability suffers greatly with the larger cams. Currently, the "smaller" cams I currently use make peak power at 7600 RPM.
Also, you are wrong about my crank. It is a stock h22a crank that has been welded. I also am using (In another engine that is reved equally as high) a stock 97 F23 crank that has a 97mm stroke.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ahh the 97mm crank...I always wondered if that would work!
Anyways sorry about your crank, I never knew what it was made of, I have know idea how you weld a crank out to that size.
No offense man, but did you actually read my post? I never stated anything about him being incorrect about anything other than the engine "tearing itself up".
Next, the cam profiles I have (in the past) run have helped increase my peak power up to 8000 RPM easily, but these are race only profiles and I use my car for daily driving. Driveability suffers greatly with the larger cams. Currently, the "smaller" cams I currently use make peak power at 7600 RPM.
Also, you are wrong about my crank. It is a stock h22a crank that has been welded. I also am using (In another engine that is reved equally as high) a stock 97 F23 crank that has a 97mm stroke.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ahh the 97mm crank...I always wondered if that would work!
Anyways sorry about your crank, I never knew what it was made of, I have know idea how you weld a crank out to that size.