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Old 02-03-2003, 10:58 AM   #1
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Default Can you refuse a lie detector test?

Simple question. Are you allowed to refuse a lie detector test? Is there any penalty if this is done?

Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (shamoo)

Under what conditions?

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Old 02-03-2003, 11:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (audiobahnman)

most lie detector tests are only given under a subpeona....in that case you can't refuse one
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (audiobahnman)

yes u can.....but prepare to deal with any reprecusions or concequences..


lie dectector tests are right 50 percent of the time, you can't even use them in court
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (shamoo)

Being that they are not admissible in court, I can't see any set doctrine that would force you to participate in something that is "legally useless." However, I do believe a court order could be issued forcing you to take one if the court feels that by not taking one you are hindering an investigation. I'm not 100 percent sure, I'm not a lawyer. Maybe someone could have better insight than myself.
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (lewie4)

just stick a small thumbtack under your big toe. press down on it when you tell the truth. and when you lie don't. It'll throw the test off. j/k
I've heard that somewhere before....hmm....




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Old 02-03-2003, 11:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (shamoo)

If the test is for possible employment then sure you can refuse - but then they can also refuse to give you a job.

A court can issue an order to force you to submit to the test. If you refuse this you will be held in contempt and will probably also be hit with obstruction of justice.

Either way - unless you are guilty then why worry about it?
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:15 AM   #8
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (Evil Drew M)

In what cases can a court issue a court order? Does there have to be evidence? Or can any police officer/detective just go and get one because he feels like it?

Thanks for the quick responses. Of course I'm innocent, but I just wanna know. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (shamoo)

Ok - this is going back about 9 years to my Pre-Law days in college so if my info is incorrect sue me - I am old and don't always remember that far back.

A lie detector is not admissable in criminal trials BUT they are admissable in Civil cases. Suppose you are charged with robbery from a store you work at. Since that is a criminal trial, the lie detector is not admissable as evidence within itself however it can be used to corraborate a story. In this case a judge can order a lie detector if it will help in establishing motive or refuting an alabi. It cannot be used as a tool to gain a confession or prove guilt.

In a civil case, such as an employer is suing you for damages as a result of thefts you allegedly committed, the lie detector can be used as evidence of guilt. A judge can issue the order with probable cause/motive/means. So if you could have been in the store alone the night the theft occurred, that is enough for your employer to get a court order for you to submit to the test.

Now don't take what I said as absolute fact since, as I said, it has been almost 10 years since I studied this stuff.
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (shamoo)

you dont have to submit to a lie detector test...

it works by detecting changes in heartbeat, skin and moisture or whatever..

if your already nerveous as hell and jumpy and freeked out, then it wont work properly..

but they try to get you to "calm down" and thats when your fucked...

there are books on how to beat them... or you can just not take one... unless it's necessary for the job you want.

for most people, it's pretty accurate.
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Old 02-03-2003, 02:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (George Knighton)

Yes you can refuse a lie detector test.

I was being investigated by a couple detectives awhile back for some stuff I'm not gunna go into but they asked me to take one but said I can't be forced to and they can't even use it as evidence. They just wanted to know if they should even proceed w/ questioning me.

They are easy to beat from my experience.
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Old 02-03-2003, 03:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (Evil Drew M)

Quote:
Ok - this is going back about 9 years to my Pre-Law days in college so if my info is incorrect sue me - I am old and don't always remember that far back.

A lie detector is not admissable in criminal trials BUT they are admissable in Civil cases. Suppose you are charged with robbery from a store you work at. Since that is a criminal trial, the lie detector is not admissable as evidence within itself however it can be used to corraborate a story. In this case a judge can order a lie detector if it will help in establishing motive or refuting an alabi. It cannot be used as a tool to gain a confession or prove guilt.

In a civil case, such as an employer is suing you for damages as a result of thefts you allegedly committed, the lie detector can be used as evidence of guilt. A judge can issue the order with probable cause/motive/means. So if you could have been in the store alone the night the theft occurred, that is enough for your employer to get a court order for you to submit to the test.

Now don't take what I said as absolute fact since, as I said, it has been almost 10 years since I studied this stuff.
yep. lie detectors are not used in criminal trials, and they can be used in civil cases but only if the pressumed defendant will cooperate.
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Old 02-03-2003, 04:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (Duckz)

The "test" is all psychological. They are trying to get you to believe in the system so you will make admissions before and after the fact. The test itself doesn't do anything.

You just have to realize which questions are the control questions. The control questions are questions that they KNOW you are going to lie to. Like "Have you ever lied for personal gain?" or "Have you ever stolen something from your employer?". They run you through the questions prior to the "actual test", and if you actually answer YES to the above questions, they ask for an explanation. Then when you take the real test they will ask, "Aside from what you have already told me, have you ever stolen something from your employer?". They know that you have. They HAVE to get you to lie for the test to "work".

The control questions are NOT "Is your name Dustin?" type questions -- those questions are worthless. They just compare physiological responses to these control questions to your responses to questions that they are interested in. The problem is that your physiological responses are not directly tied to lying -- You could just be nervous among many other things. It's a scam. The trick is to somehow find a way to heighten your physiological response to the control questions ... So that when they compare them to the "actual" questions, it looks like you are telling the truth. This is a good idea even if you ARE telling the truth, because the machine can't tell whether you are lying -- only whether your heart rate goes up or the impedence of electricity across your skin goes down (perspiration). It's very easy to earn yourslef a false positive by telling the truth.

The real value in companies is found by reinforcing to the "interviewee" that the machine really CAN tell that they are lying. It's a big act. They want to get you to admit to stuff before hand -- and many people do because they think it better to be forthright than have the machine find out. Many Polygraphers are paid bonus $$ by the number of people they can get to fail the test Click the image to open in full size. These people aren't your friends. Anything you say to them is going to be public.

Here:

http://www.antipolygraph.org
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Old 02-03-2003, 04:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (dustin)

Quote:
<George> Remember its not a lie ... if you bealive it. </George>
ugh, where is that from???
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Old 02-03-2003, 04:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (95VTECGSR)

Quote:
<George> Remember its not a lie ... if you bealive it. </George>
ugh, where is that from???
Seinfeld.

Just remember, polygraph tests for the most part can't help you, they can only hurt you. Passing a polygraph test will not get charges dropped, but failing one will definitely have a profound effect on judgement.

My mom had to take a lie detector test after some money went missing from her workplace. I knew she didn't do it and the person that did do it ended up admitting it later but my mom still came close to failing the test.
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Old 02-03-2003, 05:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Can you refuse a lie detector test? (Duckz)

Quote:
Ok - this is going back about 9 years to my Pre-Law days in college so if my info is incorrect sue me - I am old and don't always remember that far back.

A lie detector is not admissable in criminal trials BUT they are admissable in Civil cases. Suppose you are charged with robbery from a store you work at. Since that is a criminal trial, the lie detector is not admissable as evidence within itself however it can be used to corraborate a story. In this case a judge can order a lie detector if it will help in establishing motive or refuting an alabi. It cannot be used as a tool to gain a confession or prove guilt.

In a civil case, such as an employer is suing you for damages as a result of thefts you allegedly committed, the lie detector can be used as evidence of guilt. A judge can issue the order with probable cause/motive/means. So if you could have been in the store alone the night the theft occurred, that is enough for your employer to get a court order for you to submit to the test.

Now don't take what I said as absolute fact since, as I said, it has been almost 10 years since I studied this stuff.

yep. lie detectors are not used in criminal trials, and they can be used in civil cases but only if the pressumed defendant will cooperate.
Even in a civil case, the opposing party would surley call every expert witness it can afford to attempt to shoot down the credibility of the test. And opposing counsel would surely object the monent you tried to get the test it into court. Also, there may be some caselaw or a statute that controls whether the test is admissible, I dont know if the law has changed (and I'm not gonna research it for free Click the image to open in full size. ) but it some states, courts have held that they are inadmissible in all proceedings where the rules of evidence apply.
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