Need Brake Help ASAP!
07-17-2014, 04:34 PM
#1
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Need Brake Help ASAP!
So I just recently purchased a '95 Civic EX and it has been dream. Just recently my rear right calipers seized up and it needed replacement. I figured this was a good time to replace my brake setup, so I changed the calipers, rotors, and pads.
Everything went great during the brake replacement until we got to the last caliper we were installing (rear right). The banjo bolt that connects the brake line to the back of the caliper ended up being stripped in the old caliper and we were unable to install the knew caliper. The car sat over night with the one brake line disconnected completely (Later on, I assumed it was leaving that brake line disconnected that completely drained the system of fluid). So the next day we got a replacement banjo bolt and finished the job. Bled the brakes, etc... After bleeding the brakes 4-5 times the pedal was still spongy and would go right to the floor when the car was on. When the car was off the pedal would still build pressure.
I happened to have an OEM brake master cylinder on hand and replaced it just in case there was a bad seal in the 20 year MC. After replacing the MC and bleeding the system multiple times for good measure the pedal is still soft. Builds pressure when car is off, but as soon as it is on the pedal drops. We bled the system another 5-6 times and still have a VERY soft pedal with very light braking power. We have checked all the lines, we checked the ABS system and even bled that. Nothing as been able to restore the brake pedal stiffness.
Does anyone have any experience with a similar problem or any input that can help?
(I have done as much research that can be done on the internet and have come up with no good answer. I see a lot of answers saying replace the MC, but I've done that. I have a spare brake booster as well if that might be the issue)
Let me know what you think!! In dire need of help.
David
Everything went great during the brake replacement until we got to the last caliper we were installing (rear right). The banjo bolt that connects the brake line to the back of the caliper ended up being stripped in the old caliper and we were unable to install the knew caliper. The car sat over night with the one brake line disconnected completely (Later on, I assumed it was leaving that brake line disconnected that completely drained the system of fluid). So the next day we got a replacement banjo bolt and finished the job. Bled the brakes, etc... After bleeding the brakes 4-5 times the pedal was still spongy and would go right to the floor when the car was on. When the car was off the pedal would still build pressure.
I happened to have an OEM brake master cylinder on hand and replaced it just in case there was a bad seal in the 20 year MC. After replacing the MC and bleeding the system multiple times for good measure the pedal is still soft. Builds pressure when car is off, but as soon as it is on the pedal drops. We bled the system another 5-6 times and still have a VERY soft pedal with very light braking power. We have checked all the lines, we checked the ABS system and even bled that. Nothing as been able to restore the brake pedal stiffness.
Does anyone have any experience with a similar problem or any input that can help?
(I have done as much research that can be done on the internet and have come up with no good answer. I see a lot of answers saying replace the MC, but I've done that. I have a spare brake booster as well if that might be the issue)
Let me know what you think!! In dire need of help.
David
07-22-2014, 02:26 PM
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Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
Yes, at least I believe I did. I have seen a few sequences people are calling correct. Which one are you referring to for a '95 civic with ABS?
kinda douchie
Did you bench bleed the new MC before installing it?
Yes we bench bled it and then bled the brakes some more. I actually drove it around for a couple days because it had firmed up somewhat. We figured that would push some air in the system towards the calipers so when we bled it again we would get most of it. Well we bled it again, and no progress, if anything almost worst. Did a overall pressure check and looked for leaks everywhere.
eH.
Yes we bench bled it and then bled the brakes some more. I actually drove it around for a couple days because it had firmed up somewhat. We figured that would push some air in the system towards the calipers so when we bled it again we would get most of it. Well we bled it again, and no progress, if anything almost worst. Did a overall pressure check and looked for leaks everywhere.
eH.
07-22-2014, 02:53 PM
#7
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
What 1995 Civic EX comes with ABS and rear disc brakes?
Yeah, bench bleeding the master cylinder and then bleeding the right rear, left rear, right front, and finally left front is the bleeding sequence you would do for a LHD Civic.
Yeah, bench bleeding the master cylinder and then bleeding the right rear, left rear, right front, and finally left front is the bleeding sequence you would do for a LHD Civic.
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07-22-2014, 03:48 PM
#8
07-22-2014, 03:55 PM
#9
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
Straight from the 94 OEM Shop manual (with or without ABS)...
1 RR
2 LF
3 LR
4 RF
It goes in an X pattern because the braking system is divided into two separate circuits, and you have to do them one at a time.
In the USA, all EG's with ABS came with rear discs. In 1995 this includes the EX 2dr ABS, EX 4dr ABS, LX 4dr ABS & Del Sol VTEC. In 1994 there was also an Si 3dr ABS (but the Del Sol VTEC didn't have ABS that year). In 1992 there was no 2 doors coupes or del sols.
1 RR
2 LF
3 LR
4 RF
It goes in an X pattern because the braking system is divided into two separate circuits, and you have to do them one at a time.
In the USA, all EG's with ABS came with rear discs. In 1995 this includes the EX 2dr ABS, EX 4dr ABS, LX 4dr ABS & Del Sol VTEC. In 1994 there was also an Si 3dr ABS (but the Del Sol VTEC didn't have ABS that year). In 1992 there was no 2 doors coupes or del sols.
07-22-2014, 03:56 PM
#10
07-22-2014, 04:40 PM
#13
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
Straight from the 94 OEM Shop manual (with or without ABS)...
1 RR
2 LF
3 LR
4 RF
It goes in an X pattern because the braking system is divided into two separate circuits, and you have to do them one at a time.
In the USA, all EG's with ABS came with rear discs. In 1995 this includes the EX 2dr ABS, EX 4dr ABS, LX 4dr ABS & Del Sol VTEC. In 1994 there was also an Si 3dr ABS (but the Del Sol VTEC didn't have ABS that year). In 1992 there was no 2 doors coupes or del sols.
1 RR
2 LF
3 LR
4 RF
It goes in an X pattern because the braking system is divided into two separate circuits, and you have to do them one at a time.
In the USA, all EG's with ABS came with rear discs. In 1995 this includes the EX 2dr ABS, EX 4dr ABS, LX 4dr ABS & Del Sol VTEC. In 1994 there was also an Si 3dr ABS (but the Del Sol VTEC didn't have ABS that year). In 1992 there was no 2 doors coupes or del sols.
Last edited by OptimisticWay; 07-22-2014 at 05:06 PM.
07-22-2014, 04:59 PM
#14
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
I found this tidbit of info.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes-54/95-civic-ex-equipped-abs-2856370/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes-54/95-civic-ex-equipped-abs-2856370/
07-24-2014, 12:38 PM
#15
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
The EG ABS system is a 3 channel system. That is it pulses the two front wheels independently, and the two rear rear wheels simultaneously. This means it's not ideal for performance. If you lift a rear tire entering a corner, your ABS system will kick in prematurely and reduce your braking performance.
The 94-97 Integras used this same 3 channel system with the exception of the Type R in 97. The type R had the new 4 channel system that featured a much lighter & simpler combined modulator/accumulator system with a now external proportioning valve (more similar to non abs hondas). The 4 channel system allows for much more accurate modulation of the individual rear wheels. This system was used on all ABS Integras from 98 onward.
This 4-channel system was also introduced in 96 on the EK Civics before the DC2 Type-R came to the US.
The 94-97 Integras used this same 3 channel system with the exception of the Type R in 97. The type R had the new 4 channel system that featured a much lighter & simpler combined modulator/accumulator system with a now external proportioning valve (more similar to non abs hondas). The 4 channel system allows for much more accurate modulation of the individual rear wheels. This system was used on all ABS Integras from 98 onward.
This 4-channel system was also introduced in 96 on the EK Civics before the DC2 Type-R came to the US.
07-24-2014, 12:42 PM
#16
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
The EG ABS system is a 3 channel system. That is it pulses the two front wheels independently, and the two rear rear wheels simultaneously. This means it's not ideal for performance. If you lift a rear tire entering a corner, your ABS system will kick in prematurely and reduce your braking performance.
The 94-97 Integras used this same 3 channel system with the exception of the Type R in 97. The type R had the new 4 channel system that featured a much lighter & simpler combined modulator/accumulator system with a now external proportioning valve (more similar to non abs hondas). The 4 channel system allows for much more accurate modulation of the individual rear wheels. This system was used on all ABS Integras from 98 onward.
This 4-channel system was also introduced in 96 on the EK Civics before the DC2 Type-R came to the US.
The 94-97 Integras used this same 3 channel system with the exception of the Type R in 97. The type R had the new 4 channel system that featured a much lighter & simpler combined modulator/accumulator system with a now external proportioning valve (more similar to non abs hondas). The 4 channel system allows for much more accurate modulation of the individual rear wheels. This system was used on all ABS Integras from 98 onward.
This 4-channel system was also introduced in 96 on the EK Civics before the DC2 Type-R came to the US.
I have an EK-3 VTi engine clip that has ABS on it. It is a 1999 I believe. I wonder what version of ABS this has on it?
07-25-2014, 07:59 AM
#19
Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
No, this is how Honda's old 3-channel ABS (licensed from another company) gets bled. This includes all EG's, Del Sols & 94-97 Integras (except Type-R).
Honda's newer 4-channel ABS system (96+ Civic & 98+ Teg & 97 ITR) all bleed in a different order due to the completely different design of the ABS system. I believe all later Hondas with 4-channel ABS bleed LF, RF, RR, LR. Basically clockwise starting at the Drivers-Front. You should still consult the real shop manual 1st just in case cause I cannot confirm. I know that's the order for my 03 Element, 05 TL & 04 Pilot.
Honda's newer 4-channel ABS system (96+ Civic & 98+ Teg & 97 ITR) all bleed in a different order due to the completely different design of the ABS system. I believe all later Hondas with 4-channel ABS bleed LF, RF, RR, LR. Basically clockwise starting at the Drivers-Front. You should still consult the real shop manual 1st just in case cause I cannot confirm. I know that's the order for my 03 Element, 05 TL & 04 Pilot.
07-26-2014, 06:50 AM
#20
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Re: Need Brake Help ASAP!
Figured it all out! Thank you for all the help, turns out the rod in the brake booster just needed adjusting. I am occasionally getting a very stiff pedal though, so I think the booster might be on its way out, even though I though those things lasted forever.
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