2Poor2Buy

An elderly friend gave me her problematic 2001 Honda Accord Sedan automatic ULEV F23A4 with low miles, to fix and flip - it is way too conservative for me. It has the collapsed oil ring problem well documented elsewhere, but nevermind that. It had adequate power even eating lots of oil, and doesn't even smoke since the catalytic converter is so efficient. She gave it to me after it basically no longer drives. It has a dealer replaced tranny, head, and timing set, clean body - so is worth repairing. I replaced the plugs, cap, wires, tried another coil, installed a new ignitor, tested all wiring to the PCM. The misfire problem is new, completely unrelated to the oil ring problem. I logged a few hundred miles of driving it hard on the freeway (pulling over to replace the one fouled spark plug and fill the oil!) to clear carbon deposits. If anything, it runs a bit worse.

First I had the codes read for me by various shops, then bought my own OBDII reader and ScanXL Pro. Besides throwing codes P0300-P0304 (misfire: random, 1,2,3,4), a CYP error once; the real-time log shows me that the timing is severely retarded.

In one data log, I started it up and it was at 27 degrees BTDC at high idle, warmed up for 3.5 minutes slowly dropping to 13 degrees BTDC, ...after a minute of driving it was at 33 degrees BTDC at 17kph. At 5 minutes I came to a red light and the pattern occurred which shows the main problem, this time to 6 degrees ATDC. Rather than describe it further, I've attached an image to this message. Those details that show 0 are simply not being registered.

I've repeatedly cleaned the fuel system (with products and high grade gas, even 30% ethanol), changed the oil and filter a few times (using various sludge removers, last one being B109), even added some "no smoke" crap to the oil yesterday. No change.

If I can get this car running right without swapping the engine, I can sell it with full disclosure to someone to put in their own engine. But before I sell it, I must get it to pass smog once. Besides, that lets the buyer test drive it at full power and I can detail it first to get a good price.

Even if I do swap the engine myself, this misfire problem may be unrelated. Any idea what may be causing it? I used the Factory Service Manual to test every component, and by that thinking it runs fine - but it doesn't!

What I have not done:
compression test - the available rentals don't fit the spark plug tubes, but besides - low compression in the cylinder eating oil wouldn't cause all this.
fuel pressure test - tool rentals don't fit this car! If the fuel filter was external I would have replaced it, but being inside the tank obviously I'd rather not.

The only way I can see the mechanical engine causing the timing to retard is if the knock sensor is telling it to, but no codes are thrown for it, and I can't find the Honda proprietary PID for knock or knock-retard. I'd use different PC software with my OBD-Link if it has such signals. I may make the "fake knock-sensor" to see if timing advances; and I may throw $250 into buying a cheap new distributor. But first... has anyone experienced and fixed this problem?

holmesnmanny

If it's throwing the cyp code I would swap out the distributor. If the cyp isn't working properly that would cause the ecu to screw up the ignition timing.

All compression testers should work with hondas. You simply don't use the adapters they include in the package. You just thread the tester in by itself.

Harbor Freight has a $20 fuel pressure tester kit that has the adapter for our fuel rail.

2Poor2Buy

I went ahead and spent $250 (NON-REFUNDABLE) on a distributor, no improvement! (Actually, maybe it changed a little bit but not appreciably)

Anyone have experience with this particular combination and it's problems (or similar with same problem)?
F23A4, auto-tranny (replaced on recall), head built, timing set done, new distributor
The lady who owned this babied it, and it has 100K miles

MAD_MIKE

If the car has misfire issues, and is pulling timing, have you checked the EGR port is not clogged?
You will need to pull the upper plenum off the intake and clean a single port. If the engine has an oil consumption issue and some mileage on it, this may be the cause of your knock/pulled timing.

Upper Plenum gasket is $5.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=20

tim73

What did compression test show?