WolfDragon

(This is long winded but I need help please and thank you )
I have recently got a 1991 Honda accord with a 2.2 engine . When I got the car it did not run, the fans were wired to a switch, the tires bad, distributor trashed etc... .
What I have done:
I have taken the intake off, cleaned it , the EGR ports, and all the sensors and devices on the intake (including throttle body).
I replaced all the O-rings and gaskets on the intake and its parts.
I cleaned the fuel injectors and replaced all the serviceable parts down to the filters.
replaced the fuel filter (wix)
replaced the heater hoses, belts, thermostat, all coolant hoses attached to the intake .
replaced all 4 temp sensors gauge, fan timer, radiator fan switch, ecu.
replaced the distributor with a1 cardone (whole unit cap/ rotor) (life time warranty)
replaced old sparkplug wires with ngk's
replaced plugs with ngk's
replaced valve cover gasket and lower tube seals
set the ignition timing
set valve lash timing
replaced o2 sensor
Oil change
The timing belt was said to have been done in 2013

The car runs great now. There are a few things still needing to be done. I have some question about those things.

First, I got the fans working without the switch, both fans kick on for about 9-11 seconds right before the red line and I do mean right before it. That's way to close for my comfort. From what I was reading this is correct behavior, but should the fans only kick on for 9-11 seconds then kick off? They kick back on again then off over and over, after an amount of time that I did not measure (like 30s seconds to 2 minutes). It never reaches the red line tho.

second, how can I test the fan timer to see if the fans will kick on when the car is off? example, when the coolant is to hot after the key is off the fans can come on up to around 10 minutes. can I jump both the radiator fan switch and the a/c fan timer with the key turned to off to test this?

third, I have this loud clicking sound coming from behind the radio when I hit the brake pedal maybe the gas pedal to. Is this a bad sound or something I will just have to live with?

fourth, since I clean the throttle body should I lube the throttle blade? if so with what? I ask because When I had it off I cleaned it with soap and if there was lube on it there is no more. I have an issue with the gas pedal atm, I think i just need to adjust the cable tho.
Next I am very new to car suspensions and steering components. I have done about 6 hours of reading and watching videos online.

fifth, I know how to test outer tie rods, I could not find good info on testing inner tie rods anyone have links or info

sixth, Can I use the non molded energy suspension strut spring isolators for the front and rear upper isolator? They are much cheaper than anything else.

finally, any other info on how to test upper and lower ball joints while on the car, and any info on how to just replace the boots on the outer tie rod ends and upper and lower ball joints(incase they are good).


Thanks you again for your time, I greatly appreciate it.

Lost Again

1. The temp should not be getting "almost to red" before the fans come on. Could be a bad thermo switch A, sending unit, gauge, air in the system or even worse the car is overheating. I'd get a temp reader (IFR or something) and get a reading from the head and t-stat housing and see what it is telling you.

2. For the timer, a small test would be to jump the wires going to Thermo B (upper hose to head) with the key off. One fan should run.

3. Is this an auto trans? Could be the interlock clicking when you press the brake?

4. Carb or TB cleaner is designed to leave behind a "film" behind after it dries. This film is a type of lube. So if you are worried about the butterfly inside the TB, just give it a good spray and call it a day. And yes, check the cable as you stated.

5 & 7. Again, the reading and videos should give you an idea on how to inspect the suspension system.

6. No clue

WolfDragon

There are 4 thermo sensors from the front of the car to the fire wall there is: thermo switch B (aka the a/c fan timer switch) in the upper radiator hose outlet, coolant temperature gauge sender in head, coolant temperature sensor TW (aka sensor for ecu) in head, and thermo switch A in the T-stat housing.

You are saying to jump B the one in the upper hose. This should test the fan timer for key off. from what I read the fan timer monitors at least both a and b and from what I understand, switch b is on if temp is above 221 F. Then it stands to reason that switch A should also be on cause it kicks on at 189 F. So should I not jump both with the key off?

So with the car on I have jumped the switch A and both fans come on. With the car off I have jumped both switches and got nothing. I will try just B. Does the timer unit not look at the ECU sensor at all? Does the battery voltage have to be above a certain level?

Oh and yes this is a auto trans with the sports option. It's an se, all wheel abs, 4 wheel disc brakes, power locks, windows, sun/moonroof.

Some more background Info:
I got this car from my buddy who got it from someone else. When he got it he had to put the engine back together (intake and exhaust manifolds). Apparently before he got the car it over heated, and killed the inside gauge. With key on it would redline instantly. So they installed an aftermarket Temp gauge. From what I can see and what I was told this engine was swapped that's why my buddy had to put it back together. I assume the overheating of the last engine took its toll on the old engine.

I replaced the cluster inside and removed the aftermarket gauge when I replaced the hoses. If I hook back up this after market gauge will it be accurate enough to diagnose the coolant system without buying some other temp reader?

Thanks for all the info Lost Again, well I'm off to find wiring chart of this cooling system, So i can check thermo switch b wiring.

Lost Again

Somewhere I posted a pretty long write up on the cooling fans....thanks to many ("holmes", "redbull" and a few others). http://www.hondaaccordforum.com/foru...similar-44973/

If you are sure the engine is not "really" over heating - a bad HG will cause air to get into the coolant system and I won't go into the "science" of air vs coolant/water under perssure - then again, put a temp reader on the head/-t-stat.

Once you "peg" a temp gauge on one of these very long, well the gauge gives out and will never read right.

Have you done a compression reading on the cyl's?

WolfDragon

So I just don't understand what is going on.

1. if I jump sensor A with car on both fans come on.
2. If I jump Sensor B with car off passenger side fan comes on
3. So fan timer/control and wiring/relays Good!
4. I put a thermometer inside the radiator with the cap off and ran the car till hot (seems this is not vary accurate) .

4.1 (edit) (had to have been an accident cross of paper clips or something as I could not reproduce. I dont get how it seen it open then the ohms rise as the engine cooled tho.) sensor A closed when it should ~189-190 and as the engine cools the ohms rise from zero.

5. bad connector? I tightened the terminals plugged connector back on to sensor. then back probed with paper clips.
5.1 When papers clips connected fans turn on.
5.2 When as car heats up I get readings from sensor A. Reads ok.
5.3 at correct temp sensor was working and had zero ohms, DMM beeping for continuity.
5.4 Fans do not kick on. I connect the paper clips fan kick on.

Why is my sensor working, but fans not working? anyone.
Also new temp gauge in cluster works fine, 190~192 is about half way up from the bottom of the gauge. Makes me wonder how hot it got when the fans kicked on last time.

Thanks for the great link And all the help.

Edit: pulled the sensor A and boiled it in salt water, It did not close until around 208 and read .86 ohms. This number is different from the reading i got from the top of the radiator with the cap off. All in all the sensor does close at some point why does the fans not kick on?

Edit 2: boiled the old sensor, it has broken plastic where the connector goes. its read out were :180F =.73 ohm, 186F=.71 ohm. 204-211.3F=.67ohm. Now the ohms of the paper clip that make the fans kick in... .73 ohms. The connector must not be making full contact with the sensor or something. I'm going to test the car with the old one in it again.

Edit 3:Installed old sensor, removed connectors from connector plugs, connected connectors to sensor, connected DMM to connectors, started car let heat up with thermometer inside the top of radiator, Temp hit 190-197 nothing happened. Put radiator cap back on loosened bleed bolt, temped coolant there temp was 192-195. SO now the question is why does the sensor work when boiled in water but when installed it does not?

edit 4: This sensor switch just acts as a ground right? It takes in a ground, then when it gets hot enough it grounds the other wire? So should there be ~13 volts between the two connectors for this plug?

edit voltage: Yes voltage is ok because when sensor "grounds" it lets the current go to the relay ground the fan making them come on.

WolfDragon

I don't know. the thermostat is new. I can tell it opens in the car but should I pull it and check it to verify it is working? I have filled the coolant all they way up and bleed the air out. What is going on with this car!

WolfDragon

Solved

The "new" sensor I got was the wrong one in the right box. Thats why it kicked on at the wrong temp. The old sensor worked when boiled but not in the car weird right? Took back the new sensor for replacement. New one was different color, and when boiled closed when it should. Put it in the car, I put a thermometer inside the radiator with the cap off and ran the car till around 190, low and behold the fans kick on. I guess temping the coolant at the top of the radiator is not that far off after all.