saw1970

I am having a couple of problems with my 96 Accord (4cyl). At first the problem was that it was having trouble starting. It started fine when the engine was cold, but the more stops I made the harder it was to get it to start. It would ALMOST turn over, but it would take several attempts and pumping the gas pedal to get it to start. Finally one day I had to leave it at work because it wouldn't start. It also didn't seem to have problems starting in colder weather, but it did in warmer weather. I replaced the spark plugs, and took it to O'Reilly's to have them scan the codes. It came up the downstream o2 sensor, so I had that replaced and it seemed to do the trick... for about a week. Then it started having the same problem again. The temperature gauge also started going up when I was idling, then would go back down when I started moving again. The radiator was replaced a couple of months ago because it was leaking, so the radiator is fine now. Yesterday my boyfriend replaced the distributor cap, rotor, and thermostat. We discovered the fan wouldn't come on, but when it did when he connected it to the battery with wire, so the fan does work. He stuck two ends of a wire into the plug for the radiator fan switch and the fan came on, so we replaced the switch, but the fan will still not come on. We ran out of time, so he rigged it so the fan will run constantly when the car is running, but that it still not keeping it from overheating. In fact, now it wants to overheat in slow traffic, not just when idling! I am about to go back to O'Reilly's and see if any more codes come up on their scanner. I'm wondering if the upstream o2 sensor could be the reason it is having problems starting still? I can smell gas outside the car when it's running, and someone told me that means the fuel pump and fuel filter are fine. I'm also thinking of replacing the thermo sensors for the radiator. I can't just keep guessing and throwing money at it though. I would like some advice before I do these things though, as I don't have an endless supply of money! Thanks if you can help!

accordturb96

haha what a mess! Well first off I would check fuel pressure and possibly have a shop use their scan tool and determine whether all of your sensors are working correctly or not. They can watch the 02 sensors and monitor others which will give you a starting point to track down your issues. The fan is controlled by the heat sensor on the thermostat housing, I believe it has a green connector. This may be faulty or the wiring to it. Also check fuses and relays. rigging it on is not a good idea. You need to make sure the air is bled out of the system. If that is not the issue then I would check the thermostat and water pump. There are bleeder valves and procedures for bleeding the cooling system. smelling fuel is not a good thing nor is it safe. You may have a leak somewhere.

NerfGunner420

when its cold start it up. let it idle to operating temp once it starts TO JUST OVERHEAT touch the radiator is it cold compared to the engine. if the radiator is could to the touch while engine heat is felt intense then waterpump is out. if not if both radiator and engine hot blown headgasket or air in the system

NerfGunner420

shes already checked the wiring. hence jumped the plug with paperclip and fans ran. nothing wrong with wiring. thermostat has been changed as well. did her boyfriend bleed out the air right??? we don't know. but this sounds like the waterpump

accordturb96

Well nerf I don't know the wiring 100% if you were to jump the wires to the battery it will work if the fans are good but that won't tell you if the wiring to the relays and to the ecu are good. I think the heat sensor tells them to kick on then it runs to the ecu and out to the relays then to fans right?

accordturb96

Hell you could even let the car warm and see if the water is flowing through the radiator with the process nerf described. If it's not moving something is wrong with your water flow. The fan should take care of the temp assuming it's flowing correctly and the thermo has been installed the right way. Air is a huge factor in this problem right now as well.

NerfGunner420

after they put power to the fan they jumped the fan thermo switch as well. read on. go back to her original post. fans turned on after jumping the fan thermo switch which goes to ecu then switches relay that controls fans and turns them on. so that circuit is fine.

saw1970

Wow y'all! Thanks for all the responses! I took it to O'Reilly's and they put the code scanner on it. It started fine when I left here and had to stop somewhere else first and didn't have any problems starting there either. Got to O'Reilly's and they plugged in their scanner and it didn't want to start there, lol! Their code scanner said it's the 02 sensors. Well I already replaced the downstream one so I bought the upstream one this time to replace. Had trouble starting it when I went to leave, the guy that sold me the part was outside smoking and he said he wondered if the catalytic converter was clogged, and that in older vehicles people would take a hammer to it to break up the gunk in it, or even drill a couple of holes in it. He also said it could be cut out and replaced with a piece of straight pipe. I'm not going to that extreme, but I don't think it could hurt to wack on it a little and maybe drill a hole or two, lol! Just driving around town I didn't have any trouble with it wanting to overheat. I did find on youtube where you could remove the upper radiator hose and start the engine with the hose emptying into a bucket, and if it didn't pump out the coolant very quickly then the water pump could be the problem. Other than that it's not leaking or making any grinding noises. A coworker is going to replace the o2 sensor for me at work tomorrow, so I will keep y'all posted as to whether that helps or not. I would like to figure out how to get the fan working correctly. I'm also wondering about the thermo sensor A or B... hopefully I won't have to buy too many more parts before we get it figured out! Oh - I forgot to mention that we switched the relay/fuse to the fan with the one for the power windows, and the power windows still worked, so the relay/fuse is ok. And my boyfriend did feel the hoses when it was overheating and everything was as it should be. We did lose some coolant when we replaced the thermostat and it certainly could have had air in it. When I got back home and it cooled down I was able to add almost a 2 liter of water to the radiator and reservoir. I probably won't know if I still have a problem until I've had it on the highway and the engine gets warmer. I only live 3 miles from work and about 1/2 mile to Walmart so I haven't had it on the highway since I was at my boyfriend's. He's 25 minutes away.

holmesnmanny

So just to be clear you replaced part 16 in this illustration ?

http://www.hondapartscheap.com/auto-...5-speed-manual

Did you crack the bleeder bolt at part 12 as you filled the radiator with coolant ? You need to do that and close the bleeder bolt when coolant starts coming out of it. This is how you bleed the air out. If you didn't do that, just open it while the car is idling and close it quickly when only coolant comes out. You will crack it and close it within a few seconds so just go fast. This could be the reason the fans aren't coming on after replacing the fan switch because an air pocket could accumulate there which will prevent coolant from touching the fan switch and turning the fans on.

Never ever put anything except coolant and "distilled" water in your cooling system at any times. Minerals inside tap water eat away at the cooling system and engine components and they will rot.

Regarding the non starting, we need to know if the car actually cranks or not. If it cranks but doesn't start in hot weather this normally points to either the main relay(highly likely) or the ignition control module being the culprit.

saw1970

Thank you for your response, Holmesnmanny. No we didn't bleed the air out, but I will try doing what you suggested. I would like for the fan to come on by itself instead of constantly running. The car starts fine when the engine is cold, after I have made a stop or two it will crank and almost turns over, but unless I pump the gas a whole bunch it will not start. Can you tell me where the main relay is located please?

NerfGunner420

kinda sounds like the car gets flooded. could be leaking injectors. also it could be fuel pressure bleeding off. i doubt it tho since you say that flooring makes it start. either way everytime you take a trip or two and doesn't want to start try priming the fuel pump a few times. ignition on (ON) lights on dash on wait 5 secs. turn key off then ign. (ON) again and key off see if it starts like that.

tim73

Be interested to hook up a scanner and see if the ECT is getting up to 180 and the car is going into "closed loop"? Definitely make sure that theres no air in the system. Is it running rich(Really strong exhaust smell, maybe some black smoke)? If the computer isnt seeing a proper temp it wont hand off control to the O2 sensors, and it will run rich and not efficient. Test the ECT sensor(The two wire one) Also, wanna test the cooling fan switch.

accordturb96

Just to add to what everyone is saying I would not recommend cutting or messing with the cat. They're extremely expensive and if in your area you are required to do emmisions testing you will not pass without a properly working one. Any reliable exhaust shop should be able to do a pressure test on it to check on how well it functions. The car will have issues starting as the exhaust has no where to go or only slowly flows out the tailpipe. This may be causing issues with the 02 sensors. However if you tamper with the cat then the sensors will always have inadequate readings and will create a check engine light. Best to fix it correctly as the sensors are important for operation

saw1970

Hi y'all! Wanted to give you an update and get more info... I have not had any problems with it trying to overheat since we rigged the fan to operate while the car is running. I will want to fix that properly eventually but for now it will suffice. I took my car to a muffler shop this morning and they ran a test on it. He said on the gauge that the needle wasn't supposed to leave the box on one end of the gauge, and mine was just barely outside the box, so he couldn't say that replacing the catalytic converter would fix my problem. I'm thankful he was honest, because it was going to cost me $225 or a new one, which I think is probably on the low end, but anyway. He asked if when we replaced the distributor cap if there was oil inside it, and there was. He said there's a seal that's supposed to keep the oil out of it, and that the rotor wasn't getting to spark because of that. He knows that head mechanic at the Honda dealership, and gave me his number as he does work on he side also, so tomorrow he is going to look at it after he gets off work, and hopefully replacing the seal will solve the problem. I will keep you posted! Thanks for all of your responses, I appreciate the help!

saw1970

I should have asked, does anyone know what the seal is called that he's talking about? I would like to look it up and see if it's something my boyfriend and I can replace tomorrow!

Telapinto_CB7

Maybe the Valve cover seals (Gasket) or oil Rings

Radial Accord

Bad ignitor. Mighty best to replace whole distributor, too bad you already did cap n rotor, but i think ignitors are fair priced, best route is wire brush them clean lol... but make sure starter wire has not come loose either as it goes to your coil, and going to checkers is not for looking for invisible C.E.L. I just dropped a f20b I had long runs of cranking only smelling fuel until I decided to check for spark that's all it is and for giggles look for torn vaccum lines these are vital to engines referring to bad o2 readings phesshh lol

saw1970

Thought I would update... I let the Honda mechanic look at my car. He pulled some relay out from under the dash/steering wheel and sottered (sp?) some spots on it, he said it's a common problem and lots of times that will fix it - but it didn't. He said maybe the fuel filter was clogged and to buy a new one and he'd put it in for me. That was on Wednesday. Well, Thursday morning on my way to work I realized my turn signals no longer worked. Bought the fuel filter that night and left my car with him on Friday. He had said he would get my ac going for me too. However, he ended up only having time to replace the fuel filter because he had too much other work. Still did not fix the problem. And he said the fuses in both boxes were good, so there was something bad in some fuse box and the whole thing would need to be replaced. Through the Honda place the part was $165. Thankfully at least he didn't charge me for replacing the fuel filter since it didn't solve the problem. Crazy thing is... this morning my turn signals started working! And then they quit again. Good grief. I bought some fuel treatment and added it to my half tank of gas then filled up the tank. It seems to have helped somewhat, still has trouble starting but doesn't seem quite as bad. I smell fuel after I start it (although I have to pump the gas or hold it down to get it to start). Anyway, at this point I think I'm just going to sell the dang thing, if I can find a buyer! I can't keep throwing money at it. I just can't believe that the head Honda mechanic didn't know what was wrong with it either! He said I could leave it with him again when he would have more time to diagnose it, but I don't know that I trust his judgment. I think it's time to cut my losses. He also said the the whole distributor would need replaced, that you couldn't replace the seal in it... but I found a post on here with instructions and pictures showing someone replacing the seal inside the distributor. Just don't know if I want to mess with it, because I don't know if that will fix the problem either. :/ Oh, and it's been ok on the overheating part since my boyfriend rigged the fan to run constantly... until today. After I added the fuel treatment the temp gauge started going up whenever I was idling.

NerfGunner420

list of things to do
1. Check Timing
2. Check Compression
3. Check For Spark When It Doesn't Want To Start
4. Mechanics Diagnosis Not Throw Parts At It Like Fuel Filter. Just By That I Can Tell You Got Ripped OFF Probably Didn't Even Diagnose It Right
5. i would check map sensor since it seams to run rich on start ups specially after getting warmed up
6. Check Fuel Pressure
i say its running rich since you had to replace the o2 i bet the new o2 is the same way as the old one since its running rich. its coating the o2 in carbon deposits and o2 can't read right hence while it worked for a while

holmesnmanny

If you jumpered the fan switch and the fans came on but they don't with the new fan switch then the issue is that fan switch you bought.

There is no other way around it, it's literally the only possible reason. It's common sense. I specifically asked you if you replaced the fan switch in the illustration and you ignored it. If you woulda bought a Honda sensor in the first place it would be guaranteed to work for your car.

Regarding the car not starting it could be as simple as the spark plugs being bad. If you can smell gas outside, it could be the coil or the ignitor not firing which is leaving unburned fuel. You could try to pull check engine codes which could point to the cause.

If you're going to sell it, that's your choice.

saw1970

Turns out the fan switch we replaced was for the ac fan, which we didn't put back on after replacing the radiator because the ac doesn't work anyway. I bought the other fan switch but haven't put it on yet. The sparks plugs were the first things that got replaced.

19Accord97

This thread is a mess.......

Do as Holmes suggested and get the air out of cooling system. It is FREE and EASY and IS mandatory.

Is the check engine light on still? If so, get the codes read and post them here.

The thermostat that you replaced may be incorrect. It is important to use only OEM thermostats on these cars - the price difference between OEM and autozone isn't all that much. Make sure your boyfriend correctly installed the thermostat - the nipple thing should be on the top and facing the correct way.

Get the switches that you replaced corrected.

saw1970

None of that matters now... my car won't even turn over this morning. I'm going to have a junk yard come pick it up.

saw1970

How can I find out if my starter has a solenoid? Is it worth a shot to replace the starter? The battery is only a few months old, the dash lights come on but nothing else happens when I turn the key, no clicking, no anything.

saw1970

Oh good grief - I just went out to try to start my car again and discovered I had left it in Drive when I shut it off yesterday. Put it in park and tried to start it and now the dash lights don't even come on. I believe my battery is dead. My boyfriend is coming to jump it and then I will take it to Advance Auto or Autozone to have the starter tested... I'm wondering if that's been my problem with it not wanting to restart after having driven it, that the starter is getting hot?