DSMtuneR22

Ok, I had made a thread about my 96 honda accord earlier
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/96-accord-have-taken-shop-3xs-still-cant-fix-help-please-3196682/

Well, scratch that. I took it back to the shop that had worked on it and put the distributor in and valve adjustment. They said it needed a new EGR valve now, soo I said ok, if you are positive that will fix the car then do it.
Picked the car up after they put that on it, paid $220 on top off the $700 i paid for the other crap. Drive it 2 miles down the road, boom!, smoke rolling from under the hood, fire fire!!!

The fuel rail and surrounding area are all jacked up, hood has heat damage, etc...
Had a tow truck bring it back to the shop. They looked it over and said it was a electrical issue that caused it and not their work, the honda is my problem now.

Will post pics in a sec.


What do i do now?
I am picking up the police report from the incident when it caught on fire tomorrow.

holmesnmanny

They are liable. Assuming your state has a "bureau of automotive repair" department, you need to file a complaint with them. The police report and the time on it as well as the time on your work order receipt with the shop will be key so don't lose them. If it comes down to it you will need to sue them to either get them to pay for whatever is messed up. Hopefully it's not too bad. Surprised and thankful it didn't explode with damage to the fuel rail.

Take lots of detailed pictures and videos.

19Accord97

Wow, that is beyond crazy. Though I wouldnt have continued to take it to that shop as they obviously didn't know what they were doing and screwed you over. Is it a national shop or just a local mom and pop?

It is obvious by their actions that they lied/squeezed every penny out of you. No surprise they are lying and saying it was an electrical issue.

Keep us updated.

DSMtuneR22

Some pics, its at the shop sitting. The shop seems to have been around a while and its not a "national franchise" but there is no way this wasn't something they shouldn't be held responsible for.
They are waiting to see what I want to do with it, didn't offer to fix it at this point but this is crazy and they can't say they didn't have anything to do with it.
They had their hands on every part of that car, even the fuel pump while trying to diagnose it.









The hood has a crazy burn hole/mark on it through the top half/paint too.
I've put so much money into this car like 2.5k and all of a sudden it catches fire right after its out the shop???

Is there anything I can to make them basically refund me and reimburse me for what i paid for the car and the recent other work I had done?
Like 3.3k total car n all.

Funny how most of it is right around the EGR VALVE they just put it... Any ideas on how it could have caused it????

All that white dust looking substance is from the smoke and whatever burned.

bgdriver

Injector o-ring failed and sprayed a fuel mist over the hot egr valve. Quick and relatively cool fire, no melted metal, only plastic and rubber.

96odysseyjdmf22

sounds like they let gas fall all over the gdam engine and if it fell onto some exposed wire they still didnt contain it they half assed it

19Accord97

If he is right, it would make sense. You have to remove the injectors to get to the EGR valve.

I would talk with an attorney IMMEDIATELY and then go to the shop with proof that you have contacted an attorney. Or you can tell them you are filing a claim with your insurance company and will have them subrogate against the shop and let them deal it out in court.

Also, I would start posting your EXPERIENCE online about the shop. ONLY post what has happened and not other things such as, "this is the worst shop in the world".

The key is to let them know you are NOT messing around and they better take care of the situation. Be extremely firm with them and make sure you explain that they messed with the fuel rail and injectors when replacing the EGR valve. Go in knowledgeable....they obviously think you have no clue about vehicles. Remember, the longer you wait the less credible you become and the less chance you have of succeeding.

MAD_MIKE

I was thinking they probably did not grease the O rings and tore/damaged/not seated correctly, but same thing outcome.
I agree with bgdrivers assessment.
Fuel rail has to be removed to access the EGR passages for cleaning.
Easiest thing would be to turn the car to ON and see where the fuel leaks from. Also look on the fuel rail how the stud bolts attach the rail to the manifold, look to see if any are loose or missing nuts. The stud bolts are what sandwhich the injectors between the rail and manifold, if the stud bolts are loose, or the injectors were not fully seated, fuel will leak.

Injector harness looks like it was melted from the fire, it is not an area where high heat could be generated as there isn't constant power. The second injector looks the worst since the PCV hose melted and most likely dribbled onto it.

holmesnmanny

I agree with this assessment. It looks like they pulled the rail to remove the egr valve(notably the nut in the back), perhaps they even cleaned the ports.

Either they really let a lot of gas fall or somehow the ignition either got turned on or was on when they removed the fuel rail. I've had gas fall before with no issues, even a decent amount. They had to have let a lot of gas fall.

holmesnmanny

Yep, I think they could have also not properly seated the injectors and it just sprayed when you started driving it.

Whenever you pull the rail(or really anything fuel related that gets worked on, especially the fuel filter) it's imperative after putting everything back together to just turn the ignition to on and look for any leaks whatsoever before starting the car.

They probably didn't even check for leaks.

DSMtuneR22

Wow, you all make a good point. It smelled fuel before the incident but wasn't sure if it was the Honda or something else making that smell.

Well, I am going to talk to the shop one more time. If they don't want to compensate me to fix it then I am getting it towed to another shop, maybe the honda dealer. Let then confirm it, then get estimates on body and mechanical damage.

BeastlyB

Good luck.

Hope you get it sorted properly.
Would be nice to know the name of the shop if they will not cooperate.
Not sure if it is allowed but if it is and they refuse to set things right you should definitely warn fellow members here....if allowed that is.

Known_Offender

Note to self.....always check for leaks. EEEk. Learned that one replacing a fuel filter. Thanks for sharing that.

DSMtuneR22

Well an update, i got the accord towed to another shop to get repair est and look into what caused the fire. They said as of now its hard to tell exactly what causes it b/c everything is all burnt up.

Some other shops said that they may have not had to even mess with the fuel rail and injectors when changing the EGR since its just two bolt. (which i thought you had to move them for clearance at least)
That was just a short statement from some mechanic front desk people who may not know anything about the process though.
If I can't prove they messed it up I may not be able to get them to pay for fixes.

The shop owner did say he was willing to call his shop insurance company and they would probably want to send over someone to investigate and make an assessment.
I know insurance companies don't like to pay out and will try and find a comp out most likely.

Can anyone link me to some guides or manuals that show you must remove/touch the fuel rail/injectors when removing and installing a EGR that I can use to prove to the insurance adjuster that it was their fault?

holmesnmanny

odds are they cleaned the egr ports to fix the misfire ... very common fix for that code... just have that shop remove the egr plate and see if its clean . if yes then they pulled the fuel rail.. also like u said there cud be clearance issues to one of the two egr valve nuts

make a video of them opening it up/removing the egr plate

Known_Offender

The FAQ has tutorials. I just did this yesterday on a 94 EX, I can see how easily a gas leak could happen and the need to check and re-check for fuel leaks.
Thanks for the post.

19Accord97

Any updates?

DSMtuneR22

Ok, heres a update:
After getting the car towed to another shop the day after the incident. It ended up taking a week to get repair estimates. I then went to the original shop to give them the bills. The shop owner said he would call his insurance company so they could send a adjustor out to the honda.

A week later, still no call, so I call the original shop and ask if they had any information regarding the honda. The owner said he didn't hear anything so he would call them back when he could. I call him the next day, he said they didn't send anyone out yet and would do so now.
OK...
Another week passes by, nothing yet from the shop. I call them, the owner says he hasn't herd anything again and says he will call them and see whats up.
The next day I call back, the shop owner says he will call again.
Another week later, nothing, not a peep.
I called, same story, next day I call back owner says he spoke with an insurance agent and told them he didn't do anything to cause the incident and it was about a month ago. The shop owner then told me they said there is no reason to send an adjustor out then.

All this after the original shop owner stalls for 3 weeks and tries to plead the 5th, really?

I then asked if he wanted to settle up and said if he just pays the mechanical bill I will pay the body bill out of my own pocket and then we could call it even.
The owner then says he doesn't want to and isn't going to pay any of my bills or get the honda fixed. I then ask if there is any other suggestions he might have to settle this and he says no.
I am now paying to get the honda fixed again out my own pocket.

So, I just went to the small claims court clerk to get the paper work to file a suit against the shop and owner for the bills and a refund for the faulty work they did which lead to the incident. Not to mention filing complaints with the state business sector and BBB.

DSMtuneR22

Put this in a separate post because it would help me a lot imo.

I am working on getting written statements from mechanics which agree that the shop is responsible for the honda engine catching fire based off my pictures and the repairs.

If anyone on this site knows or is a certified mechanic it would help a lot if they could take a minute to do a quick write up regarding my case. So that I could use it to show the judge that this other slick talking shop owner is doing bad business and did infact rip me off. Also this may help other consumers not get ripped off by his shop in the future.
Just post it here or pm me please.

Cars do not just catch fire and blow up for no reason, literally 3 miles down the road after a shop has been working all over your car for over a week.
The shop owner says his work has nothing to do with it, even though I had to take it back to him twice in which the honda got worked on 3 different times to try and fix the same problem which still wasn't confirmed as fixed after I got it back because the engine caught on fire.

uberEFtuner

Those Vaginas should have fixed it for free. It really doesn't look that bad. They are lucky it didn't burn to the ground, and the insurance company didn't sue them out of friggin existence.

ej7attack

dang man glad you weren't hurt. these are the kind of things that happen to Chryslers, not Hondas.

19Accord97

WOw. Sorry to hear that.

THe guy is obviously being a complete asshat who knows NOTHING about vehicles. THANK YOU for taking him to court. THIEVES like him need to be held responsible.

Remember, ASSUME that no one in court knows ANYTHING about Hondas. BRING all the documentation you can. I would suggest that you bring in either a Haynes or Helms manual (or even the DIY on honda tech) on how to clean the EGR ports. This will show that you HAVE to remove the fuel injectors which is where the fire seemed to mostly concentrate. If they didnt seat the injectors properly there is going to be a fuel leak and it wont take long to start on fire.....hence the 3 miles.

Just be sure you are prepared for ALL questions. Pictures, write ups, and service manuals will be YOUR friend and can only hurt the responsible party. Also, get phone records to show that you called the shop multiple times and write down what day/time you contacted the owner.

HonBeer

Why would you put so much money in a car that is 18 years old? Blue book says only $2000 in good condition.

holmesnmanny

It would be best to use yelp to find another mechanic and then pay to have them go to a notary public and sign an affidavit attesting to that they believe the other mechanic is at fault. You will pay them and then request from the small claims judge to have the original mechanic pay that bill assuming you win. They will add it to the judgment and court costs.

It's very important to keep good notes as to times and dates of everything that is going on so you can show it to the small claims judge.

DSMtuneR22

I've stopped by shops and used online ask mechanic sites. All of them have theories but all of them say that replacing the EGR valve doesn't involve removing any fuel components so they can't say what caused it for sure. Non of them will do a notarized letter.

I am putting a case together and consoling with a lawyer monday even though lawyers don't do small claim courts. Looking back on the situation, the shop owner really screwed me over and strait up lied to me. I bet he didn't even call his insurance company during the 3 weeks he kept putting me off. I have phone logs showing when I called him and how he didn't attempt to call me once during the duration the car was down.

Any other ideas?