Xian

No clue if it measures deflection... I've got to say though that the rearward deflection of an FIA seat, even in a hard impact, isn't significant enough to worry about hitting cage bars or getting launched back into the harness. One of the problems (as I understand it) with the HANS is that in a multi-impact situation, belt stretch combined with the driver moving around in the seat is enough to let the yoke move out from underneath one or both shoulder straps. This results in additional "room" between the driver and the belts and significantly more movement in the seat. Having seen video of this ^^^ and talking with the folks involved, a HANS isn't my first preference on track.

StatGSR

now you have me all nervous about buying the TRS for myself and the TRS XL for my passenger seat. Might have to buy the XL first and see how i fit. Im a 34 waist, 6'1", 200lbs and have a tall torso. I would like a seat that is pretty tight in the waist, but i have pretty broad shoulders so that might be a no go with the TRS.

I would love to sit in more seats, not that many vehicles run aftermarket seats at my local track, it would take years to see what i like best, and to my knowledge, nobody sells seats withing 250 miles of me...

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

Try to sit in them first, don't take my word, but at 6'2'' my shoulders were well above the holes that the harness pass through in the TRS (completely covering them and then a few inches above that) and my shoulders were almost as wide as the outer edge of the wings. It was a little tight in the waist but not too bad, a little narrow in the legs as well. Hard to know how uncomfortable the waist might get after driving in it for awhile, might have been bad. Either way, it was way to small elsewhere.

The XL fit perfectly in the shoulders and height, and pretty good in the waist, maybe slightly loose, but you can always add a little extra padding.

If you really can't find a seat to sit in, looking at the specs and taking some measurements with cardboard can help somewhat with basic dimensional stuff but isn't near as good as sitting in them.

StatGSR

based on what you just said i will probably just get one TRS XL to start, see if i fit in it alright or not, then either claim it as my seat or try to find something different all together. Thanks

alejo98cx

I am also looking for seats and I am surprised no one mentioned the Corbeau FX1, comes in three sizes, costs $349 and I have heard it is super comfortable.

Also, the car is going to be driven on the street I recommend the Schroth Rallye 4 point belt (three mount points) it's got anti-submarine technology which seems important.. here is what convinced me to cover the extra costs...


that is unless I end up buying the expired six point sitting in my school's Formula SAE office.


p.s: flex in the seat would reduce the impulse of the impact (by increasing the time over which the force is exerted) thus reducing the damage dealt.

JDM_rolex

Thanks for the video post and the great information being passed around in here!

Xian

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of 4 point harnesses... regardless of ASM tech, the simple action of tightening the shoulder belts pulls the waist belt "up" on your body (often above your hips where it "should" be riding). 3 point belts with the OE style inertia reel are by far the best option for the street. 5/6 point belts are by far the better option (in general) for competition. Thankfully, it's not particularly difficult to use the OE stuff on the street and a multi-point harness on track.

PS
Who remembers this?

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-type-r-8/death-chuckwalla-raceway-weekend-3140708/

4pt harnesses were being used, IIRC. Feel free to correct me if that wasn't the case...

Matt_EH3

I currently run a Schroth 4 point belt with ASM on a Recaro "sport" seat. I would not recommend it. That's what I am trying to move away from.

When I used to autocross, it was fine, but at decent speed on a track, it doesn't even feel remotely safe compared to other cars I have driven with 5 or 6 pt harnesses.

Xian

Agreed ^^^. I had a Schroth 4pt back when I first started autocrossing... it wasn't ideal but it was "good enough" for autoX. I used the stock 3 point belts for DE's though.

JDM_rolex

Xian, thank you for the reading material! It really makes sense as to what one so consider for harness. My condolenses to the families.

What 5-6 point harness would you recomend for racing use? When you drive your car on the street do you use your stock seat belt or the 5-6 point?

Xian

IMO, 3 points for the street (can also work fine for DE's) and 5/6 point for the track if you're so inclined.

Belt choice is as much about budget as anything else... Schroth makes some really nice stuff that's not super expensive. Willans is even better but Texa$. Cheap belts work just fine but don't have as nice of hardware and webbing (typically a stiffer webbing that's more difficult to get tight).

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

[PS
Who remembers this?

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3140708

4pt harnesses were being used, IIRC. Feel free to correct me if that wasn't the case...[/QUOTE]

I recall that... Its a growing trend of these cheap track days where they let anyone drive on the track and gauge their own experience level.
If I recall a personal friend of mine told me it was the warm up lap (first one or two) when this happened. Cold tires and too much speed amongst other things.
Sad and needless.

OP sounds like you are thinking on putting a harness in your car for and its a DD?
Not a good idea. I'll wait for response before continuing.

JDM_rolex

When I find the seat I want to run a harness for track days, but I also want to keep my OEM seatbelt for driving around town. I have read stories about people getting pulled over for not "having" their seatbelts on but they are using the race harness.

My wagon is driven rarely; only when the weather is nice I bring it out. I put on less that 1000 miles on it this past season and I only get about 6 months if that to drive it.

The reason for my questions is there is an event that I want to attend in spring and would love for the car to be more suitable for driving hard, the track is Brainerd International Raceway (BIR). I have gone on some spirited drives on back roads and the seat does not hold me at all. I find myself fighting to keep my legs/hands/body straight and in a good driving position.

I just want something that can be used for street/track use.

StatGSR

what BIR event? PG? Power Cruise? Performance driving School? the reason i ask is because that's my "home" track, and have gone there many times (for all the events mentioned above) and can provide better advice based on the event you plan on attending. Infact I am sure i will be at each of those events again this year.

If you have not attended a HPDE with a driving instructor, you have no need for a race bucket yet. Seat belt locking tricks and or a CG lock will work just fine for your first several HPDEs. I have tracked for several years with del sol seats and seat belt locking tricks and that's just fine until you want to step it up a notch and add all the appropriate safety equipment. keep in mind that most of the time an instructor requires the same level of seating has safety as the driver.

Also i might have missed it, but do you have a roll bar in your car? As far as I'm concerned, no roll bar = no harness.

Xian

Don't the wagon's have the motorized door belts or is that only the later ones?

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Agreed... NO harness bars either.

JDM_rolex

I will be attending a driving school hopefully in May and then Proving Grounds in June. BTW are you on MNhondas?

The 88 civic wagon does not have the powered seatbelts. The 90-91 do however.

I will one made of steel to support a harness; similar to the Sparco one.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

I dont advise it at all.You will be taking big ugly chances with your life.
Harness bars of any kind will fold up on you in an instant, no matter how beefy you make them.
Like this!

JDM_rolex

Wow..That left me pretty speechless....

What do you think I should do then? My stock seat is just terrible..

Hey guys I'll admit that all this stuff is really new to me but I just wanted to thank you all for looking out for me. Thanks for taking me to school on this topic!

StatGSR

Glad to hear you are going to a school first, PG has no instructors which makes it a terrible and unsafe event for new people (seriously the beginner run group is a **** show, so if you are out there, just take it easy around other drivers). And yes, i have the same SN on MNhondas.


i would recommend upgrading to a better factory seat, like the del sols or maybe some DC2 seats, i honestly don't know what people have successfully put into that gen civic.

I wouldn't advise on getting a cheap "recaro style" seat, i have seen the internal frames break on those during DD usage.

JDM_rolex

So that was you responding to my helmet thread in MNH! Small world!

Xian

The best options as I see it:

#1- use stock seats/belts. Get used to sliding your seat back, tightening the belt across your lap and shoulder, give the belt a sharp/quick tug to "lock" it, then slide the seat forward until appropriately tight and you can reach the pedals/wheel.

#2- use aftermarket seat, stock belts. Similar story ^^^ but you'll be held in place better with a deeper seat.

You can also use one of these for AutoX but I wouldn't use it for track events...

http://www.gforce.com/products/netsanres/4290.php

StatGSR

^ can you actually get decent belt support with a fixed back and factory seatbelts? i would expect the lap belt pockets to make that tricky at best. Just curious if you know from experience.

JDM_rolex

I think if anything I may just end up going with option #2. Putting a stock DA/Del sol seat into the wagon requires a lot of work about the same as putting in a new seat.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Plus one for both above.
Until you are ready to either build this car out,or buy something more along the lines of a true track dedicated car heed the advice above.
Properly mounted harnesses are attached using a roll bar or cage.
If you DD this car you dont want a roll bar in there, even if its padded.
All kinds of havoc can be unleashed on your body in a wreck.
Seatbelts and harnesses have a degree of stretch to them.
The simplest of fender benders can result in your head taking a whack that you might not wake up from.
On track we know the risks we accept we might get hurt.
We wear all the proper safety gear including a helmet on track, on the street we dont use them.

FYI a street car with stock belts/ seat is sufficient to protect you on the street.
You arent driving 90mph plus... or you shouldnt be