David77

So here's the story i got the car here about 6 months ago. So it ran good and strong. It's a h22a with a p13, had i red key problem and went back to obd2 ecu. To then find out that the H22a is a obd1 engine. And then it began to not run so good any more. So now i have a p28 in it and i runs like crap. Wont idle very well like at 650rpm and lopes. But when i run the car and unplug the map it runs fine. so i replaced the map, made no difference. But i do not have any of the same problems with the obd2 or p13. Any help would be appreciated thank you.

Sparksman

So im a little confused... Just to clear it up Ive gathered you bought a 5th gen with a swapped h22a and a oem Obd0 jdm P13 ecu.

The red key is for the immobilizer on obdII ecu's. If it came swapped with a jdm obd0 ecu how was it red keyed?

Then what obdII ecu did you go back to? The H22a came both obd1 and 2, pending on if its open or closed deck. 96/97+ are all obd2

You must have bought a big variety bag of ecu adapters haha

What do you mean by "unplug the map"? The map is a program, not something physical.

The P28 you have will always have the b-series mapping on it. Its the J-1 jumper that tells the ecu to run off of the aftermarket chip andf not the factory ecu's original mapping.

You need to just have it flashed tuned to factory specs by a shop. Running the engine on the P28's original base map for a b series will more then likely lead to running too rich or lean and shorten the life of the engine drastically.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

I am thinking he has an obd1 p13 with his swap and by unplugging the map I am assuming meaning map sensor not the chip on the ecu right? That would be defeating the entire purpose of having a chipped ecu. Not to mention it isn't a good idea to run it on a p28's factory mapping, which is made to run the d16z6 vtec engine found in the 92-95 civic si.

I highly doubt Justin from advanced ignition gave you a bad base map to run your h22 correctly, but I could be wrong. I am wondering if you didn't give him the correct information or forget to tell him some things. I am thinking you have bad wiring somewhere or something is definitely wrong with one or more of your sensors to be having idle issues and the other issues you have stated.

Have you checked out your wiring and every sensor on your engine? Is just your engine obd1 with the obd2 sensors and engine harness? I am confused also on what exactly you have in your prelude, more info is needed.

Sparksman

Ya more info is needed, though I thought the P28 was for the b series, my mistake. Im not really into civics, only reason i went Honda was the prelude. I do know any 5spd obd1 ecu can be used for socketing, chipping, and tuning. I have 2 PO6's ones from a civic and the other a integra.

David77

Yes i have a 5th gen prelude. It has a H22a, Jdm right?
With a OBDI or OBD0 the Immobilizer is not a problem. When i got the cat it had an P13 in it. Witch to my understanding that's out of a vtec 95 prelude. But then i had a problem with the car and went back to the stock ECU for the car. not the engine, my bad.
And i meant the map sensor, not the fuel/air map.
and the P28 is chipped with a base map for a H22a.
And i dont know if i have a closed deck or not.

yeah i dont think that he did either. Maybe ita my dizzy.
Yeah to my ability i have checked out my wiring and every sensor on my engine?
Yes my engine is a H22a obd1 with the obd2 sensors and engine harness to a the 2000 Prelude.
So i cant figure out how to upload a video. But i'll put it on youtube and then post a link.
But i found out that it idles just fine, tell i turn the heater on or headlights. So... the IACV is the problem. But i have no problem like that when i put in the P13 and P5M. But the P13 miss and hesitate really bad almost like it starving for fuel. The P5M, gives me the P0301, p0303, p0304, p0302, p0300 codes. And a pending p1399. So that's all i got.

David77

Here is the video

Sparksman

Well from reading both of your threads I suggest you replace the distributor you have for a 94-96 H22a1 dizzy instead of using the jdm one.

I wouldnt use the obd2 ecu anymore at all, just put aside.

The only things i can think of that can cause idle issues;

-TPS not calibrated
-dirty MAP sensor
-dirty EGR
-dirty IACV
-dirty FITV
-vacuum leaks
-intake gasket leak
-dirty injectors
-bad ignition timing
-loose wires


i may be forgetting something but thats all i can think of off of the top of my head.

I see you have a ram intake, do you also have a aftermarket exhaust? You may need to just raise your rpms to more 750-800 rpms. It sounded much better after just a hair higher R's. Your are allowing alot more air to flow then the factory ecu mapping is expecting. Honestly you could just have too low of an idle rpm.

David77

Yeah I think I will just replace the dizzy to a obdI.
But if I did, wouldn't I have to get an conversation harness?
The only reason I have the obdII is if I need to get it somged in the future.

-TPS not calibrated: have not done that yet.
-dirty MAP sensor: cleaned and then replaced.
-dirty EGR: I cleaned it.
-dirty IACV: cleaned it.
-vacuum leaks: I pulled the intake and put my finger one the two holes and it died. We'll almost did.
-intake gasket leak: good not it.
-dirty injectors: ran two tanks of cleaner through it. So no???
-bad ignition timing: I really can't there are no timing marks???
-loose wires: like what??
Yes I do have a ram intake. Yes I have a aftermarket exhaust too.
I see you have a ram intake, do you also have a aftermarket exhaust?
Yes I will bring it up to about 750-800 rpms. See what it we'll do.
But it runs fine, tell the cooling fans come on and there's is a load on the engine. Almost like the IACV is not working right??

holmesnmanny

Take the oil pump crank sensor assembly and crank timing pulley off the old motor and swap it to your h22a, put the old ecu back in as well as the old distributor, take off the obd2 to obd1 harness, and go back to obd2 again, and call it a day.

The only difference from the h22a and your old motor is the crank sensor and crank timing pulley. You just need to use your old distributor not the h22a. Your car is running in limp mode as a result.

David77

We'll see I did not do the swap it was some one else.
We'll it's going to be my turbo build at some point, so I wast the closed deck.

Sparksman

If you need to have obd2 then you need a H22A4 oil pump since CPS is located in that on usdm engines.

Still buy a Obd1 distributor and then buy a jumper to obd2. The Obd1 are external coil not internal coil like usdm obd2 or jdm obd1. yes you would need a jumper to make the obd1 dizzy work on a obd2 harness.

If you go turbo you will never be able to go obd2 ever again... so how do you plan to get around that? Say you had the funds to boost now, how could you get it reg tags? Because you will need to spend some money making that obd2 without cells. Staying Obd1 would be best if possible.

Sparksman

Oh and the timing marks are by the pulley, you need a gun.

How old are the injectors? that cleaning stuff doesnt work like it says it does... Injectors arent the most expensive thing in the world and do make a difference.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

I don't think you have an old motor to swap parts from like the crank sensor and oil pump to become fully usdm obd2 compliant. So in that case just buy a new distributor, adjust your idle via the screw or get another IACV to swap in and check for any vacuum leaks and or loose wiring.
Here is the link to the jdm dizzy wiring diagram http://www.importintelligence.com/hoprh22ustoj.html.
But it looks like to me you already have the obd2 distributor on your car. So decide which generation of dizzy you want to go with, you only have two choice obd1 jdm internal coil or obd2 external coil like you have already.

Sparksman

jdm obd1 and usdm obd2 are both internal. Usdm obd1 is external.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Sparksman I think you are wrong, jdm obd1 and usdm obd1 are internal coil distibutors. The usdm obd2 distributors are external. My 1998 prelude came with the obd2 dizzy that has the external coil, model td-77u. As far as I understand the jdm prelude vtec models and the usdm prelude si-vtec came without the external coil, while the 97-01 prelude came with the external coil distributors.

David77 can you tell us the model of your distributor so we can assist you further?

THC07

Sorry that I did not read the whole post, just the early parts. it seem clear to me that the program you have on your p28 is fail.

Sparksman

Hey Thirsk66, Ive been wrong in the past, and more then likely will be again at some point. I will be the first person to admit I make mistakes, or get things mixed around. But I know Im not wrong on this, and you werent 100% correct either my friend.

We can both agree that jdm is internal coil. But I know for a fact the USDM TD-61 dizzy that came on my OBD1 94' V-tec Model's H22A1 is a External coil dizzy.

I found this list of dizzies on some Australian forum, the post was by an administrator.


TD01N* Honda Prelude 84-87 1955cc with TEC Distributor TD-01N w/Programmed F.I.

TD02P* Honda Prelude 88-91 1958cc with TEC Distributor TD-02P

TD52 Honda Prelude 92-95 2156cc with TEC Distributor TD-52U & TD-59U Non-VTEC (External Coil)

TD60 Honda Prelude 92-96 2200cc JDM H22 (Internal Coil) with TEC Distributor TD-60U

TD60C Honda Prelude 92-96 2200cc JDM H22 (Internal Coil) with TEC Distributor TD-60U w/Chrome Housing

TD61 Honda Prelude 92-96 2259cc with TEC Distributor TD-61U VTEC (External Coil)

TD61C Honda Prelude 92-96 2259cc with TEC Distributor TD-61U VTEC (External Coil) w/Chrome Housing

TD77 Honda Prelude 97-01 2200cc with TEC Distributor TD-77U (External Coil)


So Honda had external and Internal on both OBD1's and OBD2's.

Heres the link to where i got the list---

http://www.preludeaustralia.com/foru...1-distributors


I also found this while digging around, very relevant to are discussion----

http://www.importintelligence.com/hoprh22ustoj.html

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Thank you Sparksman for the list it is super helpful and it is more info that will be burned into my brain for future references. I stand corrected and I too and am not afraid to admit that I was incorrect or made mistakes about the info I posted on here. And I know it won't be the last time I make a mistake on here either.

As for the original poster I wish I could say it is your chip or program on your ecu, but I have no way of knowing that for certain without having a different chip with another stock h22 base map on it. It has to be something that is being overlooked, it always is.

rplivinitup

Would your IAB be a partial cause to poor running ..... Your iab might constantly be open? I thought only a p72 had that ecm operation. I think i need to go through this and re-read this.

rplivinitup

I could send you my Map h22a4 p72 on hondata s300v2..... But I think you would need an eprom burner or something? Let alone I'm not sure if you can load my map on your chip. That might be like Mac vs windows

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

David77 you need to ask Justin for another chip and he will send you one for $10. See if he can modify the map a little bit for you and tell him your issues. He is very helpful, and it never hurts to ask for his advice.

David77

How do i go about getting a hold of him. Just shot advanced ignition an comment.

Well, what i dont get is the the p13 does not have this problem at all. But as soon as i plug in the p28 it dose. With the p28 plugged in, if i turn on my headlights or heater, a/c and anything like that it does the idle surge. idels fine if i don't run any of that. But you cant see the rpm move if you put a timing light on it.

So what your saying is that the person that had the done the swap, did a bad job. So by the pic i put up. i have a jdm H22a with some not all the obd2 sensors and dizzy (Because of the external coil).
When i do go to boost it. I live in Washington state we don't have to somg. BUT if i ever mover to a state that i did, how would i go about passing a song. The only way i heard of is to go back to obd2 for the test. But i wont be moving any time soon so i don't have to worry about that now. When i go to boost im going OBD1.

snobordboy

Ok, trying to read all of this and sort out what is actually going on.

The car runs fine on the P13 yes?

Are you just trying to run a "tune" via the chipped P28?

Sounds like the issue is in the tune, probably has a little to do with the IABs not being functional on the P28, so they are open all the time now, as opposed to closed at idle/ low rpm, and the ELD is probably turned off. ELD is the electrical load detector, which is supposed to help the system stay stable under those situations when you apply electrical draw when the alternator needs to do a little more work, and not bog the engine down basically.

If you are set on using a chipped ecu, and the engine is mechanically fine and runs great on the stock ecu, just find a local tuner, and actually get the car tuned.

acedude180

Get hondatta !!!

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

I agree with this Snobordboy get your tune redone by a local tuner. Or you can ask Justin from AI to shoot you another chip with with a revised tune on it. And if your p13 made your car run just fine then why did you go ahead with the chipped p28? I am a bit lost on all this ecu talk and some of it is very unclear.