mattbatson

hey, wondering if you ever got any in car video and how everything is holding up for you now that it has been a couple of months?

any regrets yet?

I've been thinking about this mod constantly and making plans to start it soon...

For me, there is nothing more important than cockpit fit and feel. The seat, steering, etc....when they are perfect...life is good.

On another note.
I have a momo corsa 350mm wheel that I added in place of the stock steering wheel a few months back.
For some reason, it just doesn't feel right to me.
I'm broad shouldered, and I'm thinking that this is causing my arms to be angled in a little too much.
However, my 09 civic si steering wheel is perfect, and it is only about a half inch bigger in diameter.

I don't know, maybe a half inch makes a bigger difference than you would think.

At any rate, I went internet surfing and couldn't find any of the major wheel manufacturers making a wheel bigger than 350mm?

Xian

Not that it relates directly to the mod but... my EF still has the manual (SLOW) steering rack in it. I've done 3 local autoX events as well as some (very limited) laps at Roebling. Thus far, I've found that the slow steering bothers me more on the street than on track or at events. Would faster steering be better? Probably but it's fallen further and further down my list of "to-do's" the more time I have behind the wheel.

YMMV, my $0.02, etc, etc.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

I'll get some video this weekend. I'm still very happy with it. I've had 2 events since installing the rack but only gave me 2 and 3 runs because of outside factors. For those couple of runs it felt great but I expected it to take me about that long just to get used to it. I don't street drive that much but it already feels normal.

As far as steering wheel size, I had a ~310mm wheel that I traded for a friends 350 because it felt better with the quicker rack.

This was far down my list of things to do, but I've had the car for a while and worked down that list. The car ticks all the boxes I wanted it too when I started building 3 years ago. Quicker steering is a nice addition to a well sorted car, but not critical to going fast. Not something I would do early on.

mattbatson

Hey,
yes, my old crx was much better than my eg hatch...I think it was 3 turns lock to lock?
My eg is almost 4 turns...just completely ridiculous.

My crx was actually not too bad, and never an issue.

Now, I could get an integra rack, depower it, and install it in my eg and have the same ratio as my old crx/your ef hatch.
And I have considered this, as it would be easier and cheaper...and probably good enough.


However, I've fallen in love with the cockpit of my 09 civic si, and it has 2.6 turns lock to lock. Along with it's slightly larger than 350mm wheel, it just seems perfect.
the combination of a little bigger wheel and 2.6 turns seems to fit me really well. It feels perfect. You have the leverage of the bigger wheel, but it isn't cumbersome because of the tight steering ratio

I'm thinking if I can duplicate this in my eg that I will be happy.

mattbatson

I don't really autox much anymore, but would think that in that environment, having 3.9 turns lock to lock would just be painful.

I find that getting the cockpit right is important to fast lap times for me.

When I'm very secure in the seat with no movement, and the wheel is placed correctly and so on, it means I can drive the car at the limit much more comfortably.

I am not a shuffle steerer. My hands stay at 3 and 9 and never leave the wheel. I find it gives me the most feel for what the front wheels are doing, and gives me the fastest reaction time to countersteer.

so all the more important for me is having a reasonably quick steer ratio

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

EG Manual = 4.25 Turns
DC P/S = 2.98

Xian

I'll have to double check but I believe the EF is ~4 turns lock to lock... it's not been painful at speed (to me) but I've got the car set up pretty neutral to loose so it's flick the wheel on turn-in and then ride it out with throttle. The courses here locally are also predominantly transition intensive with only one "tight" turn-around section.

mattbatson

yeah, I knew it was pretty horrible.
I have no idea what Honda was thinking

there is an excellent tutorial on putting the guts from the DC rack into an EG shell...and the difference between 2.98 and 2.5 isn't huge....
and it would be a lot easier and a lot cheaper (no need to purchase a 260 dollar quaife unit, or pay a machinist to do all the other work)

mattbatson

it has been a few years since I drove my 91 crx dx...and I did autox it once.
For some reason I remember the steering ratio being better than my current eg manual rack...
at any rate, I think I'm spoiled by my new civic's 2.6 turns.

BiggieBert

Do you have a link to said tutorial? Searched around but was unsuccessful...

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

^You can swap an integra p/s rack into a 92-95 civic, and if you do not want power steering you can de-power that rack or loop it. There are diy's via google on all 3.

dc2 into eg
http://importnut.net/rackswap.htm

de-powering ps rack
https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes-54/ek-steering-rack-de-power-integra-pinion-2796677/

mattbatson

you know what, I searched and didn't see it either.
It is on hondatech...

anyways, I did find this one which is pretty decent

http://civic-eg.com/viewtopic.php?t=5091

If you read through, you will see that removing the subframe isn't really necessary.

The only thing I would have to do in addition to all that is to de power the rack as mine is manual.
However, I think it is just a matter of looping some hoses back into themselves and calling it a day....

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

Looping the rack you are working against the internal PS seals and pushing the fluid in the rack. It will be more difficult to steer then if the rack is truly de-powered.

You do not need to remove the subframe to pull the rack in a 92-95 civic or integra. Disconnect the rear motor mount, lower the subframe on it's bolts, and slide the rack out the wheel well. For a K-swapped car I needed to disconnect the header as well to get it out.

BiggieBert

Oh ok I'm aware of this procedure, I thought you meant the guts of the teg rack would fit inside a civic rack.

But I think I have a teg rack laying around, I might do this in my spare time.

Xian

Just under 4 turns lock to lock on my manual steering equipped EF... not saying that I'd turn down a sub-3 turn rack just that it's down the list of priorities.

mattbatson

I think I'm just OCD when it comes to everything related to cockpit...
and I do realize that this isn't completely rational (I guess anything OCD isn't...)

however, I've driven quite a few auto's in my time, and I find my 09 civic si to be superb with regards to the steering.

I actually don't think I've ever driven a car with as few as 2.6 turns L to L...and it has opened my eyes.

I think that if I can bring my wheel on the eg a little closer, and make it a little bigger, and do the 2.5 L to L dealeo, that it will be pretty much perfect.
I will probably sell my momo corsa and buy one of these

http://www.sparcousa.com/product/r-368

it even has a dish, bringing it a couple of inches closer....

At that point, replacing the seat with a bucket will give me the support I need and also lower the driver in the cockpit...as currently I sit too high.

I like to sit almost straight up, decently close to the wheel, with the wheel about chest level.

anyways, I will wait for some video and further feedback from Jennings and then decide if I want to spend the extra bucks to go with 2.5 instead of the relatively easy 2.98 from just a basic integra rack swap...

Xian

LOL. I hear ya! I've got some work to do to get this EF to where I want it... the ITR was about perfect for me and, though the EF is faster, it doesn't have the right feel... yet. Part of that's probably the driver interface stuff. Crappy seat, sliding around, manual/slower steering, etc.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

Here's video, tried to get both the steering wheel and the course.

First event on slicks so just starting to get used to them. My fastest clean run was 47.5 but I don't have video. This is a 46.7 but I clip a cone.
Edit: Have to re upload video.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

Clip the cone exiting the box at :30 seconds

mattbatson

damn that seemed like a tight course.
and that was with 2.6 lock to lock, I cannot even imagine 4.25 and how much of a train wreck that would be.

I'm assuming you have no issues so far with the rack, even when running it hard on slicks...

very nice, and thanks for the video

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

Yeah those 2 box sections were very tight. In such slow corners requiring a lot of steering angle power steering might be make things a little easier but I was happy with how I did. Elsewhere it felt great.

No issues with the rack on slicks and I wasn't taking it easy.

Franshow

Good **** Chris!

Xian

My initial thought was that the course was pretty tight... but... given that it's top of 2nd and into 3rd at the very end, I'm wondering if it actually drove a little more openly? Well, except for that tight section at the back. lol

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, besides the tight sections at :30 and :50 the course was normal/open. I was probably using especially large steering inputs because I was able to stay on the gas through a lot of the transitions. Not especially smooth, but I was really happy with the time had it been a clean run. Still have a lot to learn with these tires. Also was definitely holding back in the final slalom, a very nice Rx7 hit those concrete barriers at the finish hard.

Xian

Ouch. Sorry to hear about the other car crashing out... that sucks. I was wondering about the setback from the "track" for some of the trees and whatnot. Guess this wasn't an SCCA event?

One thing that I've got to get back in the groove on is the mount of total *and* overlapping grip even a low range R comp will take during autoX. I ran some R888's at the last event and was noticing toward my final runs that I could overlap steering/brake inputs much more than on street tires...