EFing8

I've had my 90 civic wagon for 12 years and i feel like i've been battling vibration for as long as i can remember.

anything over 67mph and i get the vibrations. it usually comes on gradually and get's worse until 90mph and then it MIGHT go away, or becomes so perfectly rythmatic that it just seems like it goes away. .

long sweeping turns with highway speed bring the vibration on slightly earlier, at around 63mph, hitting a bump in the road might bring it on earlier as well.


in the last year we did a blitz...

- 10.3" brakes with new rotors. had 9.5" bearings done, no difference, 10.3" bearings seem fine, shakes.
- new lower joints
- new skunk2 pro upper arms
- koni yellows/itr springs.
- steering rack gone over, new inners/outters/mount bushings/end bushing
- alignment... shakes
- different rims and brand new tires. shakes
- balanced 5 different times... shakes.
- new axles... shakes
- new radius rod bushings... shakes
- new lower control arm bushings, sway bar links... i really can't even think of anything else to replace.

Myself, nor a few mechanics can find anything loose or in need of replacing in the front end of the car.
COULD this be a chassis flex issue/bent?
CAN a bad upper shock bushing cause this? how can i check them.

in other words what CAN cause vibration after replacing everything i can think of?

i will paypal $30 to the person that points me in the direction of solving this.

you can search my posts and see that this vibration issue has been going on for a long long time.

EDIT: partially solved.

JDMswagSerf

The upper shock bushing can cause this.
Or lower control arms or Hubs are bent. But I think the alignment shop should've told you that if they were.

EFing8

alignment specs before the 10.3" brakes.




alignment specs after the brakes and upper control arms.




how can i check upper shock bushings? they are the harder ITR bushings and they seemed very good when i put them in about 5 months ago.

EFing8

we changed both LCA's, not just the bushings.

JDMswagSerf

Your front caster is not in spec. Sure you noticed.
Rear toe is off. That'll make for bad tire wear and create resistance upon the tire rolling.

The bushig should be rubbery, not hard like rubber that sits in the sum for a long time.
Also check the cups that the springs push up against. Make sure they are rubbery too. Not hard.

What kind of wheels and axles did you get?
Sometimes even new axles are out of balance.
And you say your wheels were balanced 5 times.
Not to down on any shop, but maybe it was done correctly, all 5 times.

I think only the following cause vibration.
Bents parts, wheels, axles, brakes.

You've knocked out about everything that causes shaking.
Parts-check
Alignment-check, an alignment would make a bent chassis roll straight/fine
Wheels-A wheel can only be balanced so much until it is truly fu**ed.
Brakes- were they new? Or used? If they are really warped, they may cause this.
And last axles- maybe out of balance.

Good Luck! There's something wrong. Just have to pin point it.

EFing8

wheels balanced by 4 different shops.
brakes were new.
could be the long axle..... that was a reman and not new.

EFing8

the hardest part of diagnostic has been that the vibration is not constant.
1 out of 20 times i get to that speed, i can keep going and get no vibration at all. but the other 19, not fun.

yungmulacrx

I went through my car like this because of a intermittent vibration over 80.. I replaced axles twice, wheel bearings, rotors turned, different transmission and clutch.. After giving up on it i decided to replace the front end bushings with the enegry suspension bushing kit just because.. Got it aligned again and noticed no vibration at all.. Its been about 8 months and still no sign of vibration.. My personal opinion is that it was my upper control arm bushings but im not positive because they all got replaced at once.. This car is a 94 accord just so you know and gets put on the alignment rack every couple months.. Hope this helps good luck

EFing8

That's what I did...

Prothane or ES (not sure) in front LCA's
Moog blue in radius rod (cross member rods)
Prothane in steering rack mount bushings
Prothane shifter everything
Skunk 2 upper control arms, bushings new

vibrations where there BEFORE all that and they are still there.

This morning, early, i found the inner tie rod end on the driver side has loosened about 1/8 turn. Steering response is slightly better now but the vibration remains. It's so f'n strange! my first high speed run i was able to get to 140kmh without any serious vibration. then i made a long sweeping turn and once i straightened the wheel it was all there. This happens 50/50, my first blast will be so-so, then it's crap after that. Then the next time i battle through 110 - 140kmh shakes, to pretty darn smooth at 140km. Sorry to go mph/kmh, i tried to use mph the whole thread but i was confusing myself.

I'm starting to think maybe i'm spending to much time in the front and not enough in the rear. The RTA's are new as well. Maybe a bad rear bearing? All my vibration feels like it's coming through the steering wheel though. I'm really reaching at thin air here, desperation, hail marry.

yungmulacrx

I hear stuff like this can be a pain.. It took me almost two years to finally figure it out and i had already gave up.. Next time i get extra money im gonna do the bushings on the rear just because.. Youll figure it out eventually.. Has the car ever been in any wrecks bye chance? The alignment specs look to be good..

EFing8

I * THINK * the car was hit in the RR up high at some point. I've had it 12 years and the only thing i can think of is a massive pothole i hit about 5 years ago, it destroyed my TPS sensor thats how hard this thing was. wouldn't an alignment show that kind of thing?

It sure feels like part of the rotating mass.

I'll try to take some pictures and maybe someone can see something, but i doubt it.

maybe i'll try to make a video, if i hold a cigarette in my hand on the steering wheel, the vibrations become very obvious, i'll have to find a decent video camera to pick up on it.

thanks for the input so far guys, keep it coming.

EDIT: i'm not getting any braking vibration to speak of. car tracks fine, rides really nice, handles great, shakes.

EFing8

Sure sounds like a tire problem doesn't it... like it's coming apart at that speed and then pulling back together at higher speeds... hahaha that's what it feels like. but i've tried different rims and tires, same thing.

UK-Kev

hi,

Are you running stock tires (tyres) and have you experimented with the pressures.

Regrads,

Kev

EFing8

The tires are brand new Doral SDL-A. I forget the parent company for doral, i think sumimoto

i will try experimenting with pressure today, i'll start by trying to lower it.

the rims are aftermarket, i tried oem rims with crap tires and it was the same.

Tyson

Take each rotor off, make sure there's no oil or debris between the hub and inside of the hat.

Check runout if you can.

Point is, I've had vibration issues and the mechanic who installed the new, oem rotors didn't clean the oil off and the rotor, and wheel, we're never really flush with the spindle.

EFing8

when the car is on jack stands, in 1st, i can see the wheels (both), going up and down slightly. side side runout is not visible to the eye.

just took rotors off and cleaned, going for test drive... back in 10.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

I have not read any mention about the motor mounts. A loose or bad mount will cause all sorts of motor occilations under light and heavy loads of acceleration. It is usually the rear mount that controlls this twisting motion that seems to syncronize with the drivetrain rotaton at times. Though the side mounts could also allow lifting of the motor that is being sensed as vibration.
It took a year for me to get evrything perfect in my Accord, with wheel shake (bad tie rods/allignment) and tire hop (bad struts) that ruined the tires now new and finaly a smooth ride.
good luck

EFing8

mounts all look good.

I did the test drive, vibration remains.

I did a new test though. In the 58-63mph zone, before vibration, if i crank the wheel either direction and dart across each lane, i feel the vibration slightly. So my guess is that it's there, but i don't feel it all the time. Turning the wheel definitely has something to do with it. Acceleration or not, the vibration happens. WTF!@ it's gotta be an axle or rims/tires... it friggin has to be!

EFing8

i've heard once that if i remove the dust rings from the hubs that i might get a bit more room for the axle to travel. is this true/worth a shot? I'm only about 1 - 1.5" lower than stock with the ITR springs

EFing8

I really don't want to crush this car!

JDMswagSerf

As mentioned. It has to be something of the rotating assembly.

Maybe you should try new axles since yours are reman.
And did the shop mention anything about the wheels looking bent while being balanced?
I used to work at a tire shop and when a wheel is bent to hell, it'll look sloppy as hell on the balAncer, but it will balance out, and your wheels don't look new.
It really takes a cheap tire. I mean cheap! Cuz even the cheapest tires we worked with at America's tire co were about 45$ a piece for a 15" tire and they worked fine!
Unless your tires are costing you 25-30$ brand new, I wouldn't worry about them.

With those size tires and wheels I would recommend 32 psi all around. That is fine and that psi should not cause any vibration at all.

If a motor mount was bad, the vibration would be from 0-80 mph.

The pot hole you hit must have been big if the tps broke!
And you say it was hit, but regardless, an alignment fixes all that.

I see your in Canada, but I'm still gonna ask, is there an America's tire co there?
Or a Costco? Take it to a reputable tire place. Not a mom and pop shop.
Not to down on anyone working at a mom&pop lol.

JDMswagSerf

Any why would you want more play in your axle?
To me, that seems like it would just create more vibration because the axle would e moving all around.

EFing8

if the lowering causes the axle to have no room to move left/right (the job of the inner joint), then you get binding. that is my understanding anyway.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

The looks of the mounts has nothing to due with their relative softness or broken state. Turning the wheel under power would still point to this being the problem. More torque steer is being introduced into the drivetrain and if the motor can hop or move freely (soft mounts) your vibration will be from these.
Hint: Take a couple ratchet straps form the garage and tie the motor down to the frame with them very tight. The motor must not be able to move at all, use a jack underneath the oil pan to see if it will rise, don't lift the car. Then test drive it again and get back to us.

EFing8

When i say 'looks good' i mean, seems to be in good functioning order. No tares, no excessive movement, a prybar doesn't move the engine much.

i'm not sure i understand the experiment you want me to run, you want me to leave the straps on and do a test drive?