blacK_Dc4

Moderator Note:

Please ignore the bull associated with this thread towards its end and gather the information this thread was intended to give.

--- 98vtec ---


It's been about 6 years of daily driving, and racing 2.0L B18C1s .. I've finally moved onto a K24/K20 setup. I thought it'd be useful for some members here if I posted random past dyno charts that I still have on this computer, and track results. Remember ... try not to compare dyno charts from different dynos, and different days. It is more of a tuning tool, and to give u an idea of the curve. For comparison, check out the "back to backs". Please leave any negative comments out of this thread. If anything, PM me.

1st setup:
85x87.2 - 11.5:1 compression - Portflow head - SMSP header - VictorX intake manifold - Rocket M22x cams - 70mm exhaust - 91 oct

made 230whp and 153tq - went 13.3 at 107mph .. full interior Integra (2590lbs without me.. 2770 with ) - street tires - 2.2 60ft


then i switched to the Rocket M24xx .. different dyno .. different day.
made 245whp and 156tq .. went 12.5 at 110mph in a full interior 96 civic hatchback (2200lbs without me .. 2380lbs with)..22inch slicks - 1.8 60ft







2nd setup :
85x89 - 12.5:1 compression - RLZ head - 3inch exhaust - (cams, intake manifold, and header were being tested)

(bold line)Rocket M25XX SMSP header vs Rocket M25XX Six Sigma header back to back


different dyno .. different day. (red)Rocket M25XX vs (blue)Skunk2 Pro3 back to back


(red) Skunk2 Pro3 intake / Pro 2 Exhaust vs (blue) Skunk2 Pro3 back to back


Myers Header (scribbly line) vs SMSP header back to back


different dyno .. different day.
(blue)VictorX 72mmTB vs (red)BMC 72mmTB back to back


E85 vs 91oct back to back


Fastest time with the 2nd setup is with the Skunk2 Pro3/Pro2s, BMC Intake manifold, and Myers header - 12.0 at 112mph - 1.760ft - 23inch slicks. (car weighs 2200lbs and 2380 with me in it.) car = 96 civic hatchback - full interior - full exhaust

93ericSi

Wow! 12 flats really impressive man. Sad to see you went to the k after doing so well with all motor b's but to each his own and they do make a lot of power.


Were you on the e85 on the 12.0 or pump gas?

blacK_Dc4

I started off the 2nd setup (12.5:1 compression) with 91oct. I switched over to E85, and saw very minimal differences, but I continued to use E85. After a year or so, I grew tired of looking for E85 stations whenever I traveled. I switched back to 91oct, and did another back to back with the same results.

slowsleeper

Thanks for sharing Calvin!

DDTECH

Good share big C

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Thats a small fortune just in dyno time! haha. I'm actually very shocked at the M25/Pro3 comparo...thought the M25's would breathe a little more up top. Thanks for the post bud

Rocket

Good stuff, Calvin.

blacK_Dc4

no problem. thank you to all you guys who's helped me along the way.

It didnt show on the dyno, but the XX primaries "felt" more responsive and "torquey" than the Pro-series. The M25xx might've been too big for this setup. I honestly felt that the M24xx would've been a better comparison, but I didnt have the time nor money to go back and try it. Sadly, I didnt get a chance to try out one of the DDTech cams .. I was too busy trying out different headers and intakes at that point. I'm sure I'll have a chance in the future with the K. Anyways.. thumbs up to both Rocket Motorsports and Skunk2 .. can't go wrong with either.

I also have a dyno of a bone stock ITR manifold with a 72mm TB vs the BMC.. I'll post it up when I find it

gaby-dr

good info

Salami

Would you be willing to post a more detailed list for the build? I like the curve I see and have some basics for a build like this.

FlewByU352

Awesome comparison of different setups you had!

blacK_Dc4

Salami - its a 2L with a GSR crank .. 11.5:1 compression .. Portflow head .. SMSP header .. 70mm exhaust .. M22x cams ... VictorX intake .. 91oct

that sums it up as it covers displacement .. compression .. air flow .. and octane. What else did u need to know?

Thanks FlewByU352!

ek4serge

iTrader: (1)

I was wondering when you were going to post all that great information I really like the test between the Myers, SMSP and Six Sigma header

Salami

Curious as to the smaller details. Air intake, throttle body, injectors, which Portflow port job, and exhaust details (assuming test pipe?, resonators and muffler?).

TIA.

Nikos

very extensive data, thank you for sharing!

I have a question for blacK_Dc4 and anyone else that has first hand experience.

Did you ever consider or JUN 3 or Jun 4 cams?

Are June cams considered by many to be among the best cams for Bseries vtec engines?

Is there a dealer in the USA that keeps these in stock or do you have to order from Japan?

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

nice stuff!

thundernoodle

Inlinefour has them I think or atleast they get them. ~1k for a pair though

0CR1 Motorsports

good stuff

blacK_Dc4

thanks guys!



3inch short ram intake, RC 440cc Injectors, the standard Portflow job, and a T1R 70mm catback with a 2.5inch T1R resonated testpipe.

Nikos, I believe that the Jun 3 cams were a very efficient cam for the Bseries in the past, but most of the bigger cams today probably benefits a bigger and more aggressive setup. I dont think an off the shelf cam can be the "best" cam for a particular setup, but i definitely respect its ability to perform because they seem to work well on any kind of setup, whether its a stock 1.8L ITR, to a mild compression 2.0L. You cant really find another cam that is so versatile. Its crossed my mind to try those, but not at the price they are brand new. I've seen alot of good results from local guys using the Blox C which are supposedly very similar .... but on a big motor, i still think the Skunk2 Pro3 and the Rocket Motorsports M24XX are the off the shelf profiles that should be used as benchmarks. I have no experience on the Jun 4.

I believe Titanmotorsports have some Jun 3s..$1100

Uncle Dave

I am impressed seeing data like this you really almost could say you have been there done that.

koczeka

Those m25+ was too big for your setup I am pretty sure, that is why the smaller P3 ruled.

Interesting to see U made the same power with more displacement and higher CR when going from Portflow to RLZ.

We walk in the same shoes with RLZ (and overcamming) :/

blacK_Dc4

really learned alot about headers with those guys, and saw how just little changes in diameter and length of the piping plays a big role in the powerband. I also want to note that the SMSP was a 4-2-1, the SSR was 4-1, and the Myers was a 4-1 with a megaphone.

thanks. I really enjoy putting a new part to the test through the dyno, and the track. I regret not being able to step up the stroke to the 95mm or 98mm. Hopefully I can use what I've learned towards the K-series setup and share it with the street guys.

Like Rocket says.. the RLZ ports are big so that doesn't mix with long duration cams. I compared it to my smaller displacement, lower compression M24XX setup, on the same dyno... and it was beating the M25XX by an average of 5whp all the way to 8500rpm. they peaked at the same "243whp SAE".

The M24xx also liked Vtec at around 5800rpm. With the M25xx, regardless of what intake manifold, or header I tried... even a stock ITR intake manifold, it wanted Vtec at 6800rpm. I believe Tou's old setup that didnt use a RLZ head and had close to 14.1:compression STILL wanted Vtec at 6800. So in theory, maybe it just doesn't work well period for a 2.0L.

You can say the Pro3 and M24XX are smaller, but I believe for a B-series... that's all we'll need for a 3 Lobe. The Pro3 has made 289whp on a 2.0L 89mm stroke, and 300+ on a 98mm stroke. Alex from Humble says he's made the most Hp on a B-series with the M24XX. that says alot about these 2 off the shelf cams.

DDTECH

The pro3's make more because of the longer duration on the exh side, you're evcing the used gases better from the cylinders. You'll notice on skunk2's pro series line up, they all have some type of longer duration on the exh side to hold the valve open longer.. this isn't just something thats thought up.

I've also tested a theory behind this and have found that on smaller ports, with a nice port job and on standard valves, this will make more power across the board then the standard big intake/mild exh and/or same sized in/exh on both sides.

There are ALOT of good head porters out there, but no matter what, the exh side doesn't ever flow nearly what it should, at least thats how it was explainned to me by alot of people in the head porting business. The longer duration exh cams help this, AND they also help complete the process of creating a scavaging effect quicker and it actually doing something.

As things progress, tuning progresses and parts and profiling progress, the typical standard or logic will also change. Scared money dont make money.

koczeka

I had great success with m25 in my old 2liters ranging from 85.5x89 to 86.5x89 and 12.5:1 to 13.5:1... always using the same Import Builders P&P head that had a lot smaller ports. With the very good bolt ons (I am still using now) it was absolutelly good to engage VTEC @6000! The head is the key... Now on the 84.5x92 I am going to m24 level on the intake side and way less then m22 on the exhaust and see if that will net some power. In case of no significant gain I consider selling the expensive RLZ head to a turbo guy (what is hard here) and swap on an almost stock head with only polish basically.

DDTECH

engaging vtec above 6500 its not sooo good.