joumama

I have a 95 civic hatch cx. the engine will turn over but won't start. I have spark at the spark plugs. i've changed the cap and rotor, spark plugs, and tried starting it with some good wires from another car to rule out the wires. i've removed the top of the fuel filter (but not the bottom) to see if i get fuel spill over and it does when i turn the key to the ignition on. I'm getting ready to change the oil filter and see if that helps. I have a 91 dx hatch as well, and when i turn the ignition on, i hear the fuel pump come in a few seconds almost right away. on the 95 cx, I do hear the pump come on, but there is a longer lag before the pump comes on .. maybe like five seconds instead of two or three seconds after the ignition is turned on. the car won't start but it will turn over. a couple of times when i've taken the air intake off, right at the air filter box, and sprayed it with starter fluid, i do get a buckle in the engine and a couple of times a short start. so like i said i 'm going to change the fuel filter next. i'm assuming that the main relay is good since i can hear the fuel filter start. now the question is can the fuel filter still be bad? can the relay be bad? i almost feel like it is a fuel delivery problem? how do i test to see if my injectors are working as well? any help would be appreciated.

B_Swapped93

pulse test the injectors it's rare that a Honda fuel pump goes bad. you can rent or buy a noid light from AA OR AZ.

Former User

Any CEL codes?

You might want to resolder the main relay anyway.

Also clean and tighten the G101 ground on the thermostat housing.

Test whether all 4 injector clips have battery voltage with the key in ON(II). If so, check whether they spray fuel when the engine is cranking.

joumama

my engine light is not on. i will check out your post on checking codes to see what codes i'm getting. i'm assuming that a pulse test with a noid light and checking for voltage at the four clips tells you that you're getting power to the injectors. with a volt meter and the key on on, do i just check the voltage at the two prongs on the clip? or do i ground the negative and check both prongs for voltage? if i have voltage in all four, what is an easy test to see if all four spray fuel when the engine is cranking?

Former User

Does the CEL work?

One terminal in the injector clip is for voltage. It's the same color wire in all 4 clips. Measure voltage to body ground at this terminal.

greyEG

even if you hear the fuel pump noise. main relay has 2 jobs

to prime the fuel pump

and to provide spark at the distributor

so even if one part works the other function of it might not.

try to fix like ron said

NVturbo

YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. The PGMFI relay is irrelevant to the spark to the distributor.

B_Swapped93

I lol'd ^ he's not to be taken seriously.

Former User

Well, this^ is not entirely true. The main relay supplies voltage to the ECU and, without this voltage, there will be no spark or fuel.

And also please keep GDD insulting behavior out of the tech forums.

Jdm_Ej8_Sedan

Is it trying to turn over? If not then it is your main relay that is bad. Try checking crank position sensor and replace fuse to fuel pump also


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joumama

the car turns over, it just doesn't start. I checked the ground to the thermostat and it looks good. I resoldered all the connections to the main relay, and i was hoping that would do it but it did not help either. my CEL should still be working since when i turn the switch to the on II position it comes on and stays on. I'm going to check and see what kind of codes it is giving me. I also bought a NOID light and will check that next. as for spark , i did put in new spark plugs, and I am getting a spark with a spark tester at the spark plugs for all four plugs. I do want to say that whenever it sits for a while, the first crank acts like it wants to start as well but after that nothing.

joumama

I will replace the fuel pump fuse as well, how do i check the crank position sensor?

joumama

so today i tried to check the codes. . i'm not sure if i'm checking it in the right place, but the only loose connector not connected to anything on my 95 cx hatchback was a yellow connector that was plugged into an empty hole right next to my fuse box on the drivers side. . I put a paper clip in it, and at first nothing was happenning. the check engine light stayed on with the ignition on/II switch position. this made me worried since no flashes usually seemed to be a code 0 meaning that the ECU is bad. . so i messed with the fuses again to see what fuses i needed to check. . anyhow, I did do a volt test on the fuses and it seems like some of the fuses under the dash were not getting voltage, and some were getting twelve volts. I did not know which fuse was for the fuel pump fuse so i did not change any fuses but i did visually check all of them at least. anyhow, after checking all the fuses I did a noid light test and on the first cylinder, i obviously was getting light and flashing. and with it hooked up to the first cylinder and running just three cylinders, the car started.. obviously after hooking up the fuel injector you could see a change in the idle to a more stable idle. once test driving it after that i did get a CEL. I'm assuming that may of been due to the fact i was only running three cylinders. after shuting the car off and restarting the car again, no CEL was showing. my question is 1) can anyone have any theories to why it wasn't starting before?? and for purpose of wondering if i was doing it right, 2) is the yellow connector the right connector to do a CEL test on my model civic?

gzes

I've had this happen 4 times. First was bad ecu. Next was a wire in the fuel pump was fried, and right now messing with another sol that is doing it and last can't recall. If you have. A spare ecu or can borrow one start with that its easy to test. Main relay also sometimes goes cold. I replaced all on my sol with new stuff so when it did it the last time I didn't know where to start but it was a fried wire. I've had I happen on a 92 d15 civic and my d16 sol and right now on another d15 sol..

joumama

I have wondered if the computer is the issue. on your 92 d15, which is prob the most similar to my car, i have a 95 cx hatchback. where do you find the port that you use the paper clip in order to read the CEL codes? I found a yellow wire right next to the cabin fuse box attached to an empty slot. I did have the CEL stay on after it would not start. anyhow, jumping this wire gave me nothing. which means , either the code is zero , bad computer or simply i'm using the wrong wire to check the codes. so the computer going bad is a good lead.

another question for you is if i do try to buy a computer for my cx, do you know if i have to buy a certain computer or can I buy any of the model ones they made for that year? I might of read somewhere that some of the higher models may of had more sensors but i am not sure of that. the cx my understanding is the lowest model they made for that year with the least horse power, seventy i believe.

I did resolder all the points on the main relay, but like you , i'm still unsure if that is still a problem and i'm even thinking of buying a new one. as far as I know. the relay will provide power to the computer so if the main relay is bad , then that could prevent your computer from working ,, but then my understanding is that the CEL signal will not come or stay on? that i'm not a hundred percent sure.

and another question for you, when you had a fried wire to the fuel pump, what was the car doing? how did you diagnose it being a fried wire. would love to know how you went about doing that.

joumama

my other question with whether the computer is good or bad, i am getting spark at all four spark plugs. my understanding is that you won't get a spark if your computer is bad?

delsolintegra

The ECU capacitor C14 could be bad and the fuel pump priming circuit won't work. The rest of the ECU functions could be OK. Borrow a known good ECU, same as yours probably a P28 get the manual or auto version same as yours.
This is a common problem with 93 to 95 civics.

joumama

thanks for the response! I don't have access to borrow an extra ECU so i will have to try to buy another one. as a reference, how do i know exactly how to pick the right computer for my set up. from trying to look up stuff, i have a 95 hatch cx. it comes with a d15b8 manual transmission. I guess i need a p28 manual transmission version. would other versions like the dx or lx model also work on a cx? is it year specific?

now also after hours of trying to figure out why it won't start, I also have figured out that when I turn the ignition to the on/II position, it takes a while for both the main relay and the fuel pump to go on. if it's been sitting for a while it may take longer, but often after turning it off and back on/II the time lag between turning the key and click and prime gets shorter. if I just start the car without waiting for the main relay to click and the pump to prime, my CEL will stay on, it will buckle when it first turns a little like it's trying to catch, and then it just turns. on subsequent tries the CEL stays on and it will just turn but not start without even catching. usually after waiting a while, i can again, try to turn the ignition back to the on/II position, wait till it primes and everytime I try it, if I hear it prime, and wait till the CEL light goes off after it primes, it will start.

so here's my question, a capacitor on the ECU being bad making a delay in sending some type of signal out could be the problem and then i guess it would warrant changing the computer right? (if that is the problem can the ECU be fixed if you know which capacitor it is and you solder a new one on?)

or could it also be a problem with the main relay? but it seems like everytime the relay clicks, the fuel pump always primes right a way.

or could it also be an ignition switch problem, could there be a connection problem between the ignition and back to the main relay causing a lag between turning on the switch and the main relay clicking and starting the fuel pump (I have no idea what the fuel pump priming circuit follows).

thanks delsolintegra that gives me another lead to follow.

joumama

so i don't know if this helps anyone but if anyone needs to try to check what kind of ECU you have for your EG, civictildeath posted this list

OBD1 ECU
P07 : 92-95 OBD1 Civic VX (D15Z1) 6 Wire O2
P05 : 92-95 OBD1 Civic CX (D15B)
P06 : 92-95 OBD1 Civic DX (D15B)
P28 : 92-95 OBD1 Civic Si/Ex (sohc vtec d16z6)
P30 : 92-95 OBD-1 Del Sol? DOHC Vtec Si/EG Si R?
P61 : 92-93 OBD-1 USDM GSR B17A DOHC vtec
PR3 : 92-93 OBD-1 JDM Integra RSi/XSi (B16A) ECU
PR4 : 92-93 OBD1 Integra RS/LS/GS (DOHC)
P72 : 94-95 OBD-1 Integra GSR (1.8L B18C? DOHC Vtec)
P74 : 92-95 OBD-1 Integra LS/GS (1.8L B18B)
P75 : 92-95 OBD-1 Integra LS/GS (1.8L B18B)
P08 : 92-95 OBD1 Civic/CRX VTi/VXi (sohc vtec)
P27 : 92-95 OBD1 Euro/Asian Civic (non-vtec 1.6l)
P29 : 92-95 OBD-1 JDM Domani (sohc zc)
P54 : 92-95 OBD-1 JDM Domani/1.8l Accord (1.8L B18B DOHC)
P70 : 92-95 OBD-1 Domani (sohc vtec zc - no oil pressure sensor reading)
P71 : 92-95 OBD-1 Integra (sohc vtec d16a)
P76: 94-95 OBD-1 JDM Integra (sohc zc)
P84 : 92-95 OBD-1 JDM Civic ETi (VTEC-E auto)
P91 : 92-95 OBD-1 JDM Civic Coupe (sohc vtec 1.6)
P0 A : 94-95 OBD-1 Accord EX
P0 C : 92-95 OBD-1 Accord 2.2L (??? F22B DOHC non-vtec)
P39 : 92-95 OBD-1 JDM Accord SOHC VTEC (F22A)
P11 : 92-95 OBD-1 Prelude 2.0i BB3 with F20A4 non-vtec
P13 : 93-95 OBD-1 Prelude Vtec (H22A DOHC Vtec)
P14 : 93-95 OBD-1 Prelude Si (non Vtec - H23A)
PT6? : some sort of non-VTEC OBDI Accord or Prelude, F22 I am guessing

don't forget to get the ECU that matches whether your driving a automatic or standard

Setsuna F Seiei posted this reference to differentiating the two

92-5 ECUs (P28, P30, P61, P72, P91, P08)
5spd = 000, 001, 002, 003, A00, A01, A02, C00, C01, C02, J00, J01, J02
Auto = J50, J51, 901, 902, C50, C51, C52, A50, A51, A52

I'm going to try to pick one up but that may take a while and hopefully i'll see if a bad ECU is my problem.

joumama

So I picked up a used main relay and a used p05 ECU that fits my 95 cx. at first occassionally the fuel pump and relay would go off and then it just stopped comming on. I first tried changing out the main relay since if the relay was bad or going bad , the fuel pump would not come on. so I did that and nothing. then i changed out the ECU, and right away the car started. changed the old one back and no priming. so i'm sure it was the ECU. . thanks delsolintegra for the isight into the computer. I will try to see if I can change out the c14 capacitor in my old computer and see if that actually was the culprit that made the ECU go bad and give me the crank but no start condition. I will post that when i figure that one out. it will take me a while to figure out how to get a new capacitor and how to switch them out.

anyone out here if they have any suggestions or help on that, it would be appreciated.

the other thing that is different now, is now i'm geting a CEL on the dash. I have looked and looked under the dash on both sides and can't figure out where the port to put check the codes is.

does anyone know where the port would be and what color it would be for a 95 civic hatch cx?

joumama

thanks delsolintegra!