Zak325

Hello everyone, I just made an account on here and was hoping for some input. Anyway, I have been eyeing up this Accord for a few years now, it has been half sitting in this shed type thing a little down the road from me. I saw the original f&f the other day and its really put me in the car mood. It made me think that I really want something to work on. Anyway, I took a trip down to the Accord the other day and checked it out, thinking I'd try and get it off this lady's hands. Body and motor has 386k on it, the original f22 was removed (Her son was gonna get a new motor for a daily driver), so the car is sitting there with no motor but the rest of it is there. Body is in great shape, little to no rust on the rear quarter panels, leather is a little beaten up (probably something living in the car), paint is good minus a few scratches but its fading on the roof (I would respray it anyway). The lady that I talked to said her son was looking at getting rid of it, would telling him you'd tow it off his property for free be reasonable? I would really not like to pay for this car because I'm gonna have to put a lot into the car. Now for the motor. The car is an auto 94-97 body style blue EX (I can't tell the year because I can't find the badge that says made in japan 199x accord ex etc.) and I would realllllly like to have a manual car. How hard would it be to convert it to manual? I really want to swap the motor and I've been looking around and it seems as a prelude h22a would be the best option for cost and difficulty (I've never worked on a car before but I am confident that I can find answers on the internet and have lots of friends that know what they are doing) but most of the swaps i was looking at have a part about converting the car to manual. I guess what I am really asking here is - Is the car worth it or just a pile of junk, Is it worth it based on the difficulty, is a h22a the right way to go, what do i do about the stick shift situation, and is h22a the cheapest but a good quality way to go. Thank you guys in advance

NZXTInerTia

Wiring isn't even all that difficult. lol

halfkoreanboy

Wiring is fairly easy i did it on my 94 integra ls with a gsr swap...I wired up the iabs and vtec it was easier than changing a heater hose on a 99 accord lol. Im sure its not that difficult on a accord either


I went to the junk yard got a bunch of pins that go into the ecu clip with extra wire then studied the diagrams that are all over the web and i was surprised how easy it was. Of course i didnt make it look stock but just routed the wire so it didnt look like a hack job lol

DeadlockRiff

the auto->manual swap on it's own is a fairly easily job. With the motor out of the car it'll make your life much easier.

I'm going to be doing my 2nd swap now (on my car) and since the engine is blown imma pull the motor prior to working on the swap.


EDIT:

Read the 10th digit/letter in your vin code for the year.
R 94
S 95
T 96
V 97

GhostAccord

If you get this car make sure you take car of that "little to no rust on the quarter panels". It's not what you can see on the outside that is the issue. Once you can see a little bit of rust on the outside. That usually means that the inside is worse. Take a look up into the fender well and see if there are any holes yet.

Zak325

hmm, wiring seems difficult, I guess I'll just have to do it to tell. It's good that the auto - manual is easy, ill check the VIN and even take some pics. Ill check the insides of the quarterpanels as well. What do you guys think is a ballpark price for a good h22, im gonna need to start saving haha

NZXTInerTia

Yes the 7s are the two door 4th gens. The non-VTEC heads flow better, GhostAccord would be able to write you a small lecture on that fact.

Zak325

Zak325

DeadlockRiff

Dash (in front of the drivers seat in the corner of the window), underneath the grill , some engine and tranny blocks, fenders, doors, and bumpers.

GhostAccord

That rubber trim around the wheel wells is usually the cause of the blistering paint / rusty inner wheel wells. That rubber trim holds in dirt and moisture and slowly rusts from the inside out.

The VIN can also be found stamped into the firewall, top passenger side, below the wiper shaft.

Zak325

ok i found it at the bottom of the window on the dash, i just wanted to make sure that was the right thing. anyway, what do you guys think, is it worth it or just a pile of junk

DeadlockRiff

Well what are your plans for it besides dropping in a H22?

Also IMO any car is worth it.

Your goals can change whether or not it's worth it for you though.

Zak325

For plans, I just wanna make it run, clean up the interior, get a good sound system, repaint it, use it as a daily. I want a good daily car but then I want some kick to it as well

Zak325

I've been contemplating just getting a new f22. What are the pros of cons of the h22 vs the f22? What are some of their qualities and which would be a better choice for price difficulty and power

NZXTInerTia

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=F22+versus+H22

Zak325

Checked the VIN. 1994 accord ex. Of course some guy decides to come home the ten seconds I'm on his property. I just walked away casually so hopefully that won't effect me getting the car

DeadlockRiff

Why didn't you talk to him...?

Zak325

I don't think it was the guy who owns it

chrisnick

Stop spreading that, you're smarter than that. The F22A* heads have the POTENTIAL to flow higher peak numbers, but the VTEC F22B* and F23A* heads ACTUALLY flow 'better', especially considering the camshafts available on the market at reasonable prices. This, of course, does not take into account velocity, which the SOHC VTEC heads may very well have an advantage. The F22A* heads are said to have better geometries than the SOHC VTEC heads, but I haven't been able to come across any real evidence to support what's been stated. There's many flow bench tests out there that show the SOHC VTEC heads greatly outflowing the F22A* heads at lower lift values, where most of the camshafts are spec'd.

Start with the purpose of the vehicle, move onto what dictates how/where the power is made(camshaft), and go from there. Camshaft selection will dictate which head will be most beneficial and will allow the camshaft to make the most power under the curve. EVERYTHING must be selected around the camshaft and purpose. 90% of the time, the SOHC VTEC head will be a better 'match' to a streeted vehicle, with much more power under the curve for a selected 'street' camshaft, but will more than likely save some money if no porting is to be done. If one is to search around, there's more evidence to support this thought than not. SOHC VTEC headed cars are typically making more power everywhere throughout the power curve than F22A* headed cars.

On the thought of intake manifold selection: sure, the dual runners of the F22A* may help mid-range power production, but the SOHC VTEC heads have VTEC for that very reason, as well. That is the purpose of VTEC. The factory SOHC VTEC cams may not take advantage of the system in the best way for absolute power production, but the system is there and can be taken advantage of much more with proper camshaft selection. Without knowing the actual volumes of the different intake manifolds, and their length of runners, the whole point of 'better' intake manifold selection for the non-vtec heads is moot. Who's to say the F23A* intake manifolds aren't actually a better design than a hogged out F22A*/H23 manifold?

Just about the only place the F22A* heads will have a great advantage over the SOHC VTEC heads are all-out builds with wild camshaft specifications, massive head porting, and huge power outputs. Once again, it's all dependent on the intended application. Why kill an ant with a $1,000,000 laser when a shoe will suffice?

NZXTInerTia

He was mentioning modifying the car, I figured he would be doing head work. lol Hence my mentioning of Ghost.

Zak325

Thanks for the info. Saying that the f22 vtec heads flow good and selecting the right cam is key, keeps pushing me towards the f22b route.

chrisnick

For a street car, I wouldn't even TOUCH anything in the head porting wise. Make sure all the seals/valves and such are good, and slap it on. If you go with a larger cam, I still wouldn't port the F22B1 or F23A1 head- they seem to flow just fine out off the bat. It's mainly getting the intake/exhaust tract to match the cam and getting a good tune.

Zak325

I heard also that the f22b and the h22 were almost interchangeable heads. Is that true?

MAD_MIKE

The F and H series blocks are of the same family of engines, but there are differences. Go tot the Accord FAQ there is info on doing such a swap, although the purpose IIRC was for boosting.