riceball777

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/just-got-retuned-s2000-mase-trackforged-turbo-manifold-3089452/

Thats the link to my old dyno.

All tuning was done on 91 octane **** fuel. Every single one of my tunes was at the same dyno for consistency (church automotive testing). The only thing that was changed was the turbo and nothing else. I went from a garrett ball bearing 50 trim turbo to a Garret gtx3576r. The gtx3576r has the gt vband .63ar t3 hotside on it. With the old turbo i was only able to run 11psi of boost and made 385whp. With the gtx3576r i was able to run 13.5-14psi of boost and made 442whp. If you look at the boost plot i lost no spool time. The gtx3576 was able to spool almost identical to the much smaller ball bearing garrett 50 trim.

The reason I chose the gtx3575r over the gtx3076r was because of this http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...0GTX3576R.html. I have also see a few other test on the evo forums of the gtx3575r vs the gtx3076r showing no spool lost from going to the gtx3576r over the gtx3076r. When I west to dyno today my brother also took his s2000 with has a gtx3076r. It spool the same as my car and made less power.



here is the full setup

stock 2002 f20c engine with stock headgasket, with 107,000 miles
ACT HDSS clutch stock ap1 flywheel
Injector dynamic 1000cc incectors with pnp clips
walbro 255 hp pump rewired straight from the battery
AEM series 2
aem boost gauge
aem serial gauge
aem boost control solinoid
omni 4 bar map sensor
track forged t3 turbo manifold
Garrett ball gtx3576r turbo. E compressor cover. t3 .63ar gt vband turbing housing
custom 3 inch down pipe
custom 3 inch exhaust made with alumized piping. no cat. 3" hks carbon ti muffler and 2 vibrant straight through resonators
cheep ebay oil cooler mounted in frount of radiator with custon -10an lines
custom garret core intercooler. core is 24x12x3.5
custon 2.5 aluminum intercooler piping routed inline pro style
custon 4" intake pipe with K&N filter
tial q 50mm bov
tial 44mm MVR wastegae.
custon open dump tube





New gtx3582 dyno results


New gtx3576r boost plot


old 50 trim turbo dyno 385whp


old 50 trim boost plot which is the darker line

wilham320

iTrader: (1)

Did you gain any power at the same boost level?

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

What's the gtx35 rated for?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yes. because of the fact that the GTX3567R uses the N111 68mm turbine wheel over over the N32 60mm turbine wheel standard on the GTX3076R, and the fact that he was over 2.0 litres with an efficient head design on 91 Octane "water".

The GTX3567R's "rating" really isn't that much different than that of the original GT3582R, just with a bit better design of the compressor wheel and the same turbine wheel for both turbochargers. These are good results but not surprising considering the limitations that he gave himself using 91 octane fuel and over 450whp for the S2000. It may "spool" the same in one gear to make more power than the GTX3076R, but I bet a few bucks that recovery response between the two, and the GTX3076R wins, even though it made less peak power.

I believe that for Riceball777's parameters that he set himself , he made the right choice, but we discussed that at length long before the article that he linked. So, I'm glad he's happy...Not surprising, but happy,

Balor_Gr

I think he went from the t3/04E 50 trim to the GTX3576 Mac.
The responce and recovery are the reasons i went with GTX3076 for my b16(I will give data when the car will be ready).
I still believe the 50 trim would destroy the GTX(30/35)76 on the same car at Rally or Track racing ...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

mmm. depends. considering that most track setups won't even give either turbo the chance to open up except on a few parts of the course unless its a long course like Mid-America, Road Atlanta, or Sebring. The 50 trim is not a bad turbo, but I've seen them smashed against these newer Garretts and Borg-Warners hands down on these courses.




In this illustration, of course its clear that the outer edge of the compressor map (which is fair , since they both use the same turbine wheel, cartridge and housing package) that the GTX30(3576R) compressor wheel can "beat" the GT35R compressor wheel, but it takes over 3PRs (or about 30psi of boost pressure) to really show its nature over the GT35R to get over 70lbs/min. This is because the 11-single blade design (similar to a diesel application) is geared more higher end power and high rotational speeds at higher boost pressures. Bring it down to earth a bit where Riceball777 is at about 1.8-2.0PRs (about 12-14.5psi of boost pressure) and you'll see that the GT35R would have been a little easier to reach maximum pressure even with a 2.0-2.2 litres of displacement. Considering he's not using any type of knock-resistant fuel to increase boost pressure to where its within his efficiency range, honestly, for these goals he could have gone with either turbo. So again, great that he purchased within the "family" of turbos that he did, as it was a better match for his application for the peak power he wanted than the GT30R, but, not that surprising.

Now, a nice 2.2 litre 4G63 with a GSC S2 Cam and 25psi of boost pressure, different story.

riceball777

Does the amount of boost even matter? For example, a stock s2000 engine 11:1 compression with a gtx35r will typically run about 11-15psi of boost on pump gas making somewhere in the 400's hp wise. With race gas/e85 the turbo can be maxed out in the 700's hp range at probably low 20's for boost level.

a stock block 4g63 with the stock 8.8 compression on a gtx35r will run 22-25psi of boost on pump gas and also make somewhere in the 400's hp wise. With race gas/e85 the gtx35r turbo can be maxed out in the 700's hp range at probably high 30's almost 40psi for boost level.

Is the gtx35r really more efficent with the higher boost level on the lower compression 4g63 oppose to the lower boost level and much higher compression of the f20c?


Here is a dyno of my stock block evo8 with all the bolt ons with gsc s2 cams running a 7 blade FP hta gt3582r (simillar to the gtx3582r) on straight 91 octane fuel at about 22-23psi of boost.

riceball777

bump for answers from TheShodan

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Sorry. I'm technically still on vacation

Actually, in this case it does. in the normal scheme of things "psi" is not as important as power level desired when it comes to spec'ing out a turbocharger for a given application. However, one still has to take the fuel used, and the amount of boost pressure used when determining how that power is delivered, because boost pressure is accounted for with a particular sized turbocharger. Depending upon the turbocharger used, there are many cases in which increasing boost pressure helps responsiveness because now that charger is in a better efficiency range than at lower pressure given its size and contour.

Just for example, If a GTX3076R's efficiency level is really over 15psi of boost pressure, it makes more sense to use that for 450whp even on a 2.0 litre than say a GT3582R with lower boost pressure on the same size engine, if the purpose is to be a responsive corner-turner, even if peak power is a little lower than the larger turbocharger at lower boost. It makes for a more fun ride overall, and not just what the dyno says in terms of peak power.