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Old 03-07-2013, 06:37 PM   #1
forevermemorabl
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Default Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

My water pump started grinding, so I thought it be a good time to replace it, along with the water pump on a 1995 Honda Civic DX 1.5L. (non v-tec).

Now that I got EVERYTHING back where it goes, with new parts, the car will not start! The battery is fine...no problem there. I even tried hooking up jumper cables to give it an extra boost, but to no avail. All the belts are rotating the way they should be when the car is trying to turn on, so no problem there. I took out a spark plug and tested for spark and I HAVE spark, so no problem with the distributor.

The car was running before I did the repairs, but after the repairs, it does not turn over. The belt was put back exactly the way the diagram says to, plus I double checked the part number and it is the correct timing belt...no problem there. I checked all my fuses...no problem there either.

What's left? I am at my wits end here.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Spark plug wires in correct firing order on cap?

Fuel pump primes?
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Is the car turning over? Any stumble? The plug wires are on correct? Check timing with a light.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

When I changed the timing belt, I made sure the cam shaft and the crankshaft was on TDC. When I put the crankshaft pulley back on, it was put perfectly in its grooved slot. The crankshaft pulley for my 1995 Honda Civic CANNOT under any circumstances be put on incorrectly! It is form fitting with a little notch that slides into place, when replacing. So, before I took the timing belt off, I had set the cam and crank at TDC. When I installed the new timing belt and put back the crank, it was still at TDC.

I have not messed with the spark plugs or wires at all. The car cannot turn over, because it won't start. I cannot check timing, unless car is running. Actually, when I first tried to start the car, it seemed like it was going on, but died quickly and it has not been on again since. There are NO check engine lights on either!
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

You didn't take the valve cover off to change the belt? If you did you almost had to have pulled out the plug wires.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Honestly sounds like a timing issue to me. Did you unplug the distributor by chance? I replaced my distributor one time and didn't get the connector plugged in all the way and it wouldn't start.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

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You didn't take the valve cover off to change the belt? If you did you almost had to have pulled out the plug wires.
Good call...you are right! I did take the spark plug wires off, but the wires were kept together in their little plastic holder and set nearby. When I put the wires back in, they were perfectly matched up to their cylinder. 1000% confident the wires were put back exactly where they were.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Post a picture. I mean it can only be honestly 5 things: spark, fuel, air, timing (cam), compression. Narrow down what you did and removed and go from there.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

do you have spark? Do you hear the fuel pump run? Do you have compression. If the motor cranks over you can hook a timing lift up and see when the spark Is triggered and see if the timing is close. In doesn't need to "run to do this".
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

I have spark! I am not sure about the sound of a fuel pump, but I did put in a new fuel pump, fuel pump strainer, and fuel filter October 2012. I also just replaced my oil and oil filter with the timing belt and water pump change. And of course, I replaced the coolant, because I had drained it, due to changing out the water pump.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Just throwing this out there: did you remember to hook up the grounding wire that usually goes to the valve cover(sometimes it goes to the ps mount)
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

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Just throwing this out there: did you remember to hook up the grounding wire that usually goes to the valve cover(sometimes it goes to the ps mount)
I hate that lousy ground wire...I always put the valve cover back on with the 4 little nuts and always forget to hook up that ground wire. But yes, I did put it back on (after forgetting again).

Its all guess work at this point. I am not a mechanic expert, but I will need to keep researching the problem online and maybe ask around.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

I hear ya dem grounding wires have cost me alot of unnecessary work. I would start with making sure cylinder #1 is TDC (I usually stick a long skinny screwdriver into the cylinder and watch it go up) and make sure its at the compression stroke- you can wiggle the rocker arms on the intake and exhaust valves and they have no tension on them.
And then recheck timing marks on the camgear and crank pulley and make sure they are dead on. This is where i would start. This is where your problem is.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

You said you already check spark, and spark plug order.

I would do this in this order just because it is quick/easy/takes very little time:



Buy starter fluid or pour little bit of gas in the intake. if starts == fuel problem.

Check compression. if compression is low your timing of cam/crank is way off.
If compression is good your timing can still be off but should be high enough to start your car.

check your ignition timing with a timing light.

If your 100% sure of the easy stuff above.
You need to recheck the timing of the two cams/cranks.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

I have tried the starter fluid in the intake and this did not start the car. I believe there is compression, because air was shooting out of the first cylinder (with the spark plug out of course). I guess I will recheck timing belt and get back with you all tomorrow (hopefully).
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

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I believe there is compression, because air was shooting out of the first cylinder .

That is not a sign of compression. That is your cylinder moving up and down when you crank the engine
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Since you add fuel and it still did not start, that leaves us with spark/compression/timing.

To properly test for spark on a modern car you need a HEI tester like this.
Click the image to open in full size.

Using a screw driver stuffed into the wire is not an accurate test.

Did you use a HEI tester or a screwdriver?
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

I tested for spark by taking the spark plug out of cylinder #1 and than placed the spark plug wire into the end and had someone else crank the car and I noticed the spark firing off and on, as it normally does.

I have a thought though...can I test my car for timing when it is not running? In other words, by "trying" to start the car (which won't start), can I check with a timing light to see if the marks are hitting their respective marks?
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

did you have the distributor loose? if not the only way timing changes is by the cam gear being out of time with the crank.

Car was running, you changed the timing belt, and now it doesn't run.
Take it apart and check the cam timing, it's off.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

I did not loose the distributor at all! I will check the cam and crank positions!
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

It appears to me that there are two very likely problems.

1. The MECHANICAL timing is off. In other words, the belt that you put back on either slipped or somehow moved while you were installing it and it is at least 2 belt teeth off.

To check this, rotate the engine with a ratchet and a 17mm socket until the SINGLE mark (NOT the 3 marks close together, those are for IGNITION TIMING) lines up with the little plastic piece sticking out from the lower timing belt cover. Now take the top timing belt cover off and check that the camshaft sprocket has the word "UP" pointing up, and the two little marks at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock are where they are supposed to be. If everything lines up, then the culprit is likely.....

2. Did you remove the spark plug wires from the distributor end? If so, they are probably not in the correct order.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

I am going to try that Ryd2TheMax! However, there is no "UP" mentioned on my cam shaft. It has a white paint mark though and I know that this is the Up position. When I took everything apart, I actually made sure that the 3 marks together were lined up with the plastic piece sticking out from the lower timing belt cover...actually, it was the middle of the 3 (which is the color red). I lined up the red mark with the plastic sticking out piece, but when I did the timing belt change, neither the crankshaft or camshaft moved once and when I put the crankshaft pulley back on, it can only go one one way, because it has a notch/groove that is form fitting. What this means is, whatever position the crankshaft pulley was in when it was taken off, will be the exact position it will be placed back in.

Never the less, maybe I did not do change the timing belt with the #1 cylinder being at TDC. Would this change anything, even though when I replaced the timing belt the crankshaft and camshaft stayed absolutely put/still. Basically, I am taking off one old belt and putting on a new one, without any of the variables changing whatsoever. Could the tensioner be too tight and thus causing a problem?

I will have to take some pictures and post them herein.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

You are supposed to use the one mark off by itself, not the center mark. The center mark out of the three is for ignition timing. However, if you are POSITIVE that the neither gear moved, then it is something else.

However, I would bet money the camshaft gear moved at least, at several points in the cycle it is under tension from the cam lobes and can shift quickly.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

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However, I would bet money the camshaft gear moved at least, at several points in the cycle it is under tension from the cam lobes and can shift quickly.
I hear what you are saying, but let me assure you, that my crank and cam are pretty tight and do not slip easily. I was scared at first when changing my timing belt, because many have said to make sure that the cam and crank do not move a muscle or even a millimeter. I was pretty confident after I removed the crankshaft pulley, because I saw how still and sturdy the crank and cam were...it would take great effort to move them!

I followed the direction to the letter on removal (except for putting #1 at TDC I guess). I removed the belts first, then the crankshaft pulley, than the lower timing belt plastic case, than loosened the tensioner, than removed the timing belt. Than on install, I replaced the timing belt, tighten the tensioner, put the
lower timing belt plastic case back on, and put the crankshaft pulley on, and everything else else.

I am going to pull off my valve cover and top timing belt cover to see if the timing belt is still in place and moving when I try to start the car. Of course I will put the valve cover back on (without the upper timing belt plastic casing when performing this).
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: Timing belt + water pump replaced, car will not start

Yes as I have said you can check timing with the light Hooked up and someone cranking the motor with the key. It will work as if the car was running just alot slower.
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