The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
02-22-2013, 08:06 PM
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The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
So I use a lot of aerospace and military surplus parts in various spots of my builds, the reasons being the quality is second to none (it was in a military jet aircraft after all) and you can buy almost anything dirty cheap
So I've had two oil coolers laying around, one off of an EA-6B and one off another jet,
Well the EA6B cooler looks almost like an air to water intercooler so I bought it because it was the perfect size to use as an automotive cooler
I had never looked into the part numbers since the cooler had a data plate but the assembly is broken down into 4 components... and boy was I shocked when I looked up cost on the components
The core size is 4.5x6.25x6.25
And the cooler is 25x8x7 overall
8-an in/out for the oil supply
internal thermostat bypass, opens in the 180-220 range (thermometer broke during testing)
1128SCP403-17
Cooler, Lubricating Oil, Engine
$17,242.00
1128P41537-1
Duct Assembly, Oil Cooler
$2,879.67
1128P41536-3
Ejector Assembly, Gusset
$426.67
128P51511-1
Bracket, Mounting
$2,112.79
That's just a tad under 23,000.... for an oil cooler!
I didn't pah anwhre near close to that (thankfully) and since I'm in the middle of doing the various fluid systems for my civic, I figured this would be a perfect engine oil cooler.. the core is small and has a built in thermostat bypass (one less part to buy and plumb) plus it uses 8an fittings, where as the typical cooler is between 10-12an, much too large for a stock oil pump... so the 8an lines will keep pumping loss to a minimum and reduce stress on the pump, not to mention its rated to flow 8gpm of solid oil... so it will be perfectly adequate for my uses. The support bracket and discharge tube might be too much to use, given space limitations... but the 3" inlet end tank is perfect to hook brake ducting hose to as well as a blower motor so I can supply a constant amount of air no matter how fast I'm going.. also not needing to be directly exposed to air means I can tuck it behind the bumper. I think it will be perfect at keeping engine oil temps down, especially when flogging the car around road courses.
I might even use that ejector thingy elsewhere as a way of discharging crankcase pressure/blow by.
Opinions?
I feel that with 8an lines feeding and returning oil that the stock pump will be just fine, especially since I will try to keep the lines as short as possible. Also, since the core has very small fluid passages and large air passages that the extra volume added by the core will be negligible, and given that the oil in the core has high surface area exposure to the air passages, it should cool rather well
So I've had two oil coolers laying around, one off of an EA-6B and one off another jet,
Well the EA6B cooler looks almost like an air to water intercooler so I bought it because it was the perfect size to use as an automotive cooler
I had never looked into the part numbers since the cooler had a data plate but the assembly is broken down into 4 components... and boy was I shocked when I looked up cost on the components
The core size is 4.5x6.25x6.25
And the cooler is 25x8x7 overall
8-an in/out for the oil supply
internal thermostat bypass, opens in the 180-220 range (thermometer broke during testing)
1128SCP403-17
Cooler, Lubricating Oil, Engine
$17,242.00
1128P41537-1
Duct Assembly, Oil Cooler
$2,879.67
1128P41536-3
Ejector Assembly, Gusset
$426.67
128P51511-1
Bracket, Mounting
$2,112.79
That's just a tad under 23,000.... for an oil cooler!
I didn't pah anwhre near close to that (thankfully) and since I'm in the middle of doing the various fluid systems for my civic, I figured this would be a perfect engine oil cooler.. the core is small and has a built in thermostat bypass (one less part to buy and plumb) plus it uses 8an fittings, where as the typical cooler is between 10-12an, much too large for a stock oil pump... so the 8an lines will keep pumping loss to a minimum and reduce stress on the pump, not to mention its rated to flow 8gpm of solid oil... so it will be perfectly adequate for my uses. The support bracket and discharge tube might be too much to use, given space limitations... but the 3" inlet end tank is perfect to hook brake ducting hose to as well as a blower motor so I can supply a constant amount of air no matter how fast I'm going.. also not needing to be directly exposed to air means I can tuck it behind the bumper. I think it will be perfect at keeping engine oil temps down, especially when flogging the car around road courses.
I might even use that ejector thingy elsewhere as a way of discharging crankcase pressure/blow by.
Opinions?
I feel that with 8an lines feeding and returning oil that the stock pump will be just fine, especially since I will try to keep the lines as short as possible. Also, since the core has very small fluid passages and large air passages that the extra volume added by the core will be negligible, and given that the oil in the core has high surface area exposure to the air passages, it should cool rather well
02-22-2013, 08:11 PM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
Its also a dual pass core, so I shouldn't have an issue with elevated oil temp, I have my detail photos but can't upload them at the moment
The exit side of the cooler (where you see the bracket and pipe) will provide for a very beefy mounting system, since I probably won't be able to use the existing bracketry. I want to try and use the discharge tube and have it exit the drivers side bumper, this way I'm not forcing extra air under the car causing more lift.
The exit side of the cooler (where you see the bracket and pipe) will provide for a very beefy mounting system, since I probably won't be able to use the existing bracketry. I want to try and use the discharge tube and have it exit the drivers side bumper, this way I'm not forcing extra air under the car causing more lift.
02-22-2013, 08:31 PM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
And I'm lucky I got this in one piece, the demil code for the cooler states destroy to the state of scrap
I have another huge cooler off another jet that priced out at 30,000! And it was built in 72'
Your tax dollars at work lol
I have another huge cooler off another jet that priced out at 30,000! And it was built in 72'
Your tax dollars at work lol
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02-22-2013, 08:52 PM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
Overcooling won't be an issue because it has its own built in thermostat bypass,
The thermostat is normally closed, in this cooler closed means that the oil bypasses the cooler. When oil temperatures reach a certain point, the oil flowing over the thermostat causes it to open, there's a tapered piece on the end that closes the bypass hole and forces oil through the core. If the oil drops below a certain temp, the thermostat closes and allows oil to bypass the core again.. the cool part is the core self regulates how ,much oil goes though the core and at what temp, since its fully open at one temp and fully closed at another, any temperature in between means some oil goes through the core while the rest bypasses it
The thermostat is normally closed, in this cooler closed means that the oil bypasses the cooler. When oil temperatures reach a certain point, the oil flowing over the thermostat causes it to open, there's a tapered piece on the end that closes the bypass hole and forces oil through the core. If the oil drops below a certain temp, the thermostat closes and allows oil to bypass the core again.. the cool part is the core self regulates how ,much oil goes though the core and at what temp, since its fully open at one temp and fully closed at another, any temperature in between means some oil goes through the core while the rest bypasses it
02-23-2013, 12:49 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
No wonder your defence budget is so high. I could get you the exact same thing made up and shipped over for next to nothing compared to that price j/k . I wouldn't take those prices to much to heart though....
Good luck with your project. It'll be interesting to see how you go about installing it and how well it actually works
.
Good luck with your project. It'll be interesting to see how you go about installing it and how well it actually works
.
02-23-2013, 06:47 AM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
No wonder your defence budget is so high. I could get you the exact same thing made up and shipped over for next to nothing compared to that price j/k . I wouldn't take those prices to much to heart though....
Good luck with your project. It'll be interesting to see how you go about installing it and how well it actually works .
Good luck with your project. It'll be interesting to see how you go about installing it and how well it actually works
.Considering this whole assembly is mostly 2024 aluminum and the mounting bracket is entirely riveted, its cheap lol
I had to move my car outside temporarily but its been raining nonstop for almost 4 days, hopefully I can take a look today.
02-23-2013, 06:50 AM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
I actually was debating using this, or rather attempting to use this, as an air to water core, if I can block the bypass hole I could use it as such, if the core will flow 8gpm of oil, imagine water capacity. The core us designed properly as well
02-23-2013, 09:04 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
the only reason its list price is so high is because it has to be FAA approved for aircraft usage... Im actually very surprised you were able to find that in one piece they are supposed to be scrapped/crushed so they cant be resold....
Great find though im not sure how much MORE efficient this cooler will be on a car as a plane travels at much faster air speeds and will need to put a ton more oil in your car for it to really make a big difference. the capacity on that unit is enormous
Great find though im not sure how much MORE efficient this cooler will be on a car as a plane travels at much faster air speeds and will need to put a ton more oil in your car for it to really make a big difference. the capacity on that unit is enormous
02-23-2013, 11:04 AM
#16
Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
no wonder jets costs so much. They can practically charge any outrageous mark up price they want and get away with it...
no aluminum oil cooler with a thermostat can ever warrant a price higher than a few hundred dollars, let alone thousands because it was used in a jet.
I guess when you only make a few hundred or thousand of them then they deem the value goes up even more, which is bs.
no aluminum oil cooler with a thermostat can ever warrant a price higher than a few hundred dollars, let alone thousands because it was used in a jet.
I guess when you only make a few hundred or thousand of them then they deem the value goes up even more, which is bs.
02-23-2013, 11:24 AM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
So, here is what I know about A2W from experience on my drag car....
You want high water flow to pull heat away from the core. 8gpm is not gonna do it. Peak heat transfer using distilled water and pump lube additive was around 50gpm and using 2 Garrett 1000hp cores. With just 1 core, peak gpm was even higher for max transfer. Surface area is a wonderful thing with cooling....
On a small turbo it may work alright. Something in the GT30 range may even push it. The limiting factor is the 8gpm.
For what it's worth, I got away from A2W and I'm not looking back. What a headache and sometimes a mess.
02-23-2013, 11:24 AM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
On this unit no, the ea6b prowler was an electronic warfare plane so it has tons of coolers, most fed conditioned and metered engine bleed air
I have a guy that builds serious ducted fans for oil coolers, brakes, etc, I can make it flow.
The overall core size is 6.25x6.25x4.5, however the passages are tiny as they should be. I purged out all the old mil spec oil (which is some nasty, smelly ****, and thicker than molasses) cleaned the core and then measured its internal volume. It only adds about a little under 2 quarts to system volume, not a lot really. Plus the line routing will also mean minimal added volume
And you are correct, the demil code says make it so damaged it has to be scrapped, I guess a few escape sometimes. And this is weird because my unit was made in 1992, after the final production in 91... maybe they made compulsory spares for maintenance and supplies for various bases and carriers servicing the prowlers.. other than a few paint chips its in perfect order.
I have a guy that builds serious ducted fans for oil coolers, brakes, etc, I can make it flow.
The overall core size is 6.25x6.25x4.5, however the passages are tiny as they should be. I purged out all the old mil spec oil (which is some nasty, smelly ****, and thicker than molasses) cleaned the core and then measured its internal volume. It only adds about a little under 2 quarts to system volume, not a lot really. Plus the line routing will also mean minimal added volume
And you are correct, the demil code says make it so damaged it has to be scrapped, I guess a few escape sometimes. And this is weird because my unit was made in 1992, after the final production in 91... maybe they made compulsory spares for maintenance and supplies for various bases and carriers servicing the prowlers.. other than a few paint chips its in perfect order.
02-23-2013, 11:27 AM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
From your first post you mentioned A2W, then side tracked to possibly using it to cool oil. I got lost in the ramble....
So, here is what I know about A2W from experience on my drag car....
You want high water flow to pull heat away from the core. 8gpm is not gonna do it. Peak heat transfer using distilled water and pump lube additive was around 50gpm and using 2 Garrett 1000hp cores. With just 1 core, peak gpm was even higher for max transfer. Surface area is a wonderful thing with cooling....
On a small turbo it may work alright. Something in the GT30 range may even push it. The limiting factor is the 8gpm.
For what it's worth, I got away from A2W and I'm not looking back. What a headache and sometimes a mess.
So, here is what I know about A2W from experience on my drag car....
You want high water flow to pull heat away from the core. 8gpm is not gonna do it. Peak heat transfer using distilled water and pump lube additive was around 50gpm and using 2 Garrett 1000hp cores. With just 1 core, peak gpm was even higher for max transfer. Surface area is a wonderful thing with cooling....
On a small turbo it may work alright. Something in the GT30 range may even push it. The limiting factor is the 8gpm.
For what it's worth, I got away from A2W and I'm not looking back. What a headache and sometimes a mess.
I've always thought a2w was troublesome but yet have always wanted to try it, oh well *shrug*
02-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
Drivers side behind the bumper, in front of the tire. The cooler itself (no bs attached) is fairly compact
I'll get pictures today with my mounting ideas
I'll get pictures today with my mounting ideas
02-23-2013, 12:45 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
I used a Meziere 55gpm unit for my car. I was using 2 1000hp units so the dual outlet piece worked great for me.
8 GPM is not a lot. A water faucet flows more than that....
8 GPM is not a lot. A water faucet flows more than that....
02-23-2013, 01:27 PM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
I'd love one of those pumps for my electric water pump setup, I'm jealous lol
They rated it at 8gpm for the spec oil for the cooler... which I can tell you after emptying is thicker than molasses at room temp, so with a lighter weight oil it should go up but it will be adequate for my needs.
I tool pictures of where I want it to go, bare in mind it was a crude quickie and the car is in pieces, but it shows the rough placement of where I want everything. I'll post them as so as they all upload,
Also I found my other oil cooler, a really cool piece off of an S-3A, its a dual pass finned type so it surface mounts where air just flows over it, had a cool idea too... the civic hood has the same curvature as the cooler, maybe Anodize it black and mount it through the hood, might look cool.
They rated it at 8gpm for the spec oil for the cooler... which I can tell you after emptying is thicker than molasses at room temp, so with a lighter weight oil it should go up but it will be adequate for my needs.
I tool pictures of where I want it to go, bare in mind it was a crude quickie and the car is in pieces, but it shows the rough placement of where I want everything. I'll post them as so as they all upload,
Also I found my other oil cooler, a really cool piece off of an S-3A, its a dual pass finned type so it surface mounts where air just flows over it, had a cool idea too... the civic hood has the same curvature as the cooler, maybe Anodize it black and mount it through the hood, might look cool.
02-23-2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: The 23,000 dollar oil cooler
ok, so heres my idea for mounting, i also have an idea for ducting but dont have that material yet
these pictures just show orientation, the cooler will be installed as high as possible under the car... all I had to sit it on was a bundle of cat5e lol
in the last picture you can see how much higher I can go, which i will. I dont know if the angled mounting will work, i'll have to wait until more components are installed. I can install it parallel to the car and still be able to use ducting and a blower fan, but Im afraid tire clerance will be an issue
But here's why I'm doing this
those holes on the sides in front of the intercooler supply high pressure, cold air to brakes, various coolers ,etc..
This is something I plan on doing on my car, where the intercooler mounts I'll have a gap between it and the bumper, I'll mockup something where one duct feeds the engine oil cooler and another will feed the trans cooler. I will have brake cooling provisions, but not right away, due to Im still looking at braking system options... so the other two (total of 4, 2 on each side) will be reserved for brake cooling, all 4 openings will have ducted fans to provide ample air flow, I might make one oversized and use a carbon Y adapter to feed cold air to the airbox for the turbo.
opinions?
these pictures just show orientation, the cooler will be installed as high as possible under the car... all I had to sit it on was a bundle of cat5e lol
in the last picture you can see how much higher I can go, which i will. I dont know if the angled mounting will work, i'll have to wait until more components are installed. I can install it parallel to the car and still be able to use ducting and a blower fan, but Im afraid tire clerance will be an issue
But here's why I'm doing this
those holes on the sides in front of the intercooler supply high pressure, cold air to brakes, various coolers ,etc..
This is something I plan on doing on my car, where the intercooler mounts I'll have a gap between it and the bumper, I'll mockup something where one duct feeds the engine oil cooler and another will feed the trans cooler. I will have brake cooling provisions, but not right away, due to Im still looking at braking system options... so the other two (total of 4, 2 on each side) will be reserved for brake cooling, all 4 openings will have ducted fans to provide ample air flow, I might make one oversized and use a carbon Y adapter to feed cold air to the airbox for the turbo.
opinions?
