Glenlivet12

I'm asking this on here because plenty of folks here have seemed to witness the death of various parts of their Civics. You guys are probably the experts on this car.

I have a '00 EX Coupe, automatic with 202k on it. Everything is stock. I'm just trying to decide if it is worth putting the money into it for a new t-belt service, along with fixing a rotted out a-pipe and apparently my rear trailing arm bushings are shot. In addition the a/c needs some help (probably compressor) and I'll have to replace the oil pan soon since some shop stripped out the drain plug and didn't say anything. There is a leak from somewhere underneath, probably the rear main seal, but it only drops a little oil each night. I'd replace some other seals with the t-belt.

The car is used for my 85 mile roundtrip commute. Overall it performs like it always has (I've had it for almost 11 years now). There is a bit of a tick from the motor which may just need a valve adjustment. The auto tranny shifts fine for the most part. 1-2 shift is a bit hard on a cold morning, but it goes away after a couple minutes of driving. Body and and interior are pretty good. A couple spots of rust (used to live up in Upstate NY). One where the front bumper meets the quarter panel around the wheel well and another in a similar spot in the rear. Dings, dents, etc. from college, to living in a condo, and commuting on the DC Beltway.

As far as history, the car has basically required one non "wear item" repair in its life. Heck, it still has all of the original lights. A wiper motor went out a few years back. Other than that, its been nothing but routine stuff and a ball joint last year, but suspension parts don't last forever. The driver side window regulator could use a replacement, but it still works and won't fall out the track as long as I don't drive with the window all the way down.

As far as doing my own wrenching, I am not skilled enough to tackle any of this stuff. Maybe I could take a shot at the oil pan myself, but I lack a reliable mechanically inclined backup buddy to bail me out. So I'd have to pay a mechanic for the services. I've estimated I'd need about $2200 into it this year (bushings, exhaust, a/c compressor, and oil pan). Another $1000 for the timing belt, water pump, tensioner, drive belts, cam seal, crank seal and valve cover gasket.

Anyway, I know most guys on here row their own gears so you might not know the auto trans very well, but is there anything you'd check in particular on this car to determine if it is worth sinking $3k into over the next year? I'm inclined to think it will keep ticking along (even the Mazda salesman I spoke to yesterday while looking at a 3 said my car should be good for 300k miles) with periodic repairs for items wearing out. Suspension is all original too except the one ball joint, so the struts and such will probably need replacement in the next couple years. The mechanic I just took it to said everything else looked fine for now and it drives fine.

One mitigating factor is Virginia personal property tax. I pay about $70 a year on the Civic now. If I bought a 23k new car, I'd pay about $611 this year in taxes (aside from new car sales tax). So that is basically $550 a year I can put towards repairs without blinking an eye. Plus my choice of new cars isn't exactly something that makes your pulse race. I need good fuel economy on anything new, and it has to be an automatic due to DC gridlock and the fact I don't want to work a clutch while crawling in a traffic jam for 2 hours. Plus 20-24k miles a year is damn near abuse for a car. As much as I'd want to go buy the 328i M Sport I saw on Cars.com yesterday, it isn't practical for a commuter. Neither would an S2000 work as a daily driver.

So I appreciate any thoughts. I know there is no automotive crystal ball, but I'm just wondering if there is some red flags to look for on the car to imply impending doom, or if I am probably in good shape to keep on piling on the miles.

B20DelSol

Well...your choice is actually quite personal.

Do you feel that the car is worth putting that much money into it?
Do you have any sentimental value in the car?

If the body and interior are in good condition, and if the results from a compression and cylinder leak down test are good, I would say keep it.

Like you mentioned, that $550 in tax will add up over time, plus any car loan payment (if you finance your new car) and normal maintenance could be a significant increase in cost compared to repairing your civic and keeping it for the time being.

You may want to shop around for your repair service. $1000 sounds crazy to me for a timing belt replacement, but I do 90% of repair work myself so I don't realize labor costs for this stuff.

Over all...I say keep it, it is worth it to me. You can spend the money now for repairs, drive it for at least a couple more years, and save up some more money towards a future car that you may like a bit more than your current options are.

97_ek_coupe

A grand for t belt?!?! Whatever shop that is, never go there again!

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

+1

with water pump and belt should run about 200-300 with labor. its not that difficult

Hidenplanvew

A timming belt here is around 400-500 but that includes parts, An exhaust shop can fix your exhaust and there is a way to do pressure test on the transmissions, but that will only tell you its doing good right now. If the trans does go out, its better to have a used tranmission put in then a rebuild. Honda autos from what I have had the pleasure of working on dont do well with rebuilds....

Is it worth it to you to keep the car and save money or do you want something new??

CivicM8nster

Guys need help asap tearing my hair out ... i have a 97 jdm Ek3 vti with a b16a sir 2 odb1 engine , bought ek4 vti loom to make it obd2a plug n play with the b series engine , engine was running before i put it in the civic , now it cranks over but wont start..

gone through various issues like vac lines ( there all ok in right order ), spark and fuel to each cylinder ( got both ), checked timing wasnt out and nope its fine.. read on here sumwhere that imobilser would cause a problem simliar .. but my imboliser wont allow engine to crank at all unless i turn it off ....


anyone have any ideas please its driving me insaine

98civdx

$1000 for a timing belt is robbery. on the high side it would $400-450. Make sure you use OEM parts.

This kit comes with everything you need, (including the accessory belts, tensioner and seals.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-GENUIN...11fa87&vxp=mtr


Bushings, maybe $100 a side in labor. These are worth taking a look at.

http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...idproduct=8602

Glenlivet12

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Yes, 1k is ridiculous for the t-belt service, but you would be hard pressed to find cheaper in the DC area. I got several quotes at 100k from dealers and indie shops and they were all 800-1000. Now there is Hamilton Honda in NJ that offers it for 389, but it would be a good 3.5 hour drive. I emailed them about a quote to include seals/gaskets, so we'll see.

I'm leaning towards just fixing it up at that point. Maybe I'll look into having the compression and leak down tests done before doing anything. Like I said in the OP, the car still performs like it always has, so I have no reason to believe it won't continue to be reliable after these repairs/maintenance is performed.

Can I affordable a new car? Yes. Am I excited about a new Elantra GT, Mazda 3, Focus, or Civic? Not really. To be honest, I feel like the Civic holds its own against them in the performance department. Maybe that is because I've had this car for 10 years and am too used to it, but I was gunning those cars and taking some turns at speed and was just like "eh". I feel like I did the same this morning as I took an off ramp at speed in the Civic. Plus everywhere you read says the 6th gen and D series motors are tough to beat as far as longevity.

I'm going to put some feelers out today and see if I can whittle this near term repair bill down. I'd like to get a relationship going with a local mech, and this guy is went to used to be an Acura tech and has good reviews online, but it looks like he is sticking it to me on the parts prices.

axis11

I say keep the car. Get a repair manual and do lots of reading on civic forums. The FAQ on here has lots of useful info. Doing repairs on your own will save you a lot and keep the car in good shape. When the time comes a major damage to the engine or trans comes up, you can just replace them with low milage jap import engine and trans for a very reasonable price.

doctorake

In terms of the tax, depending on what county you are in you may get personal property tax relief. My Mazda 3 which is brand new was appraised at 18k and I qualified. If it is under 20k they cut the tax price I think in half. I believe I pay 300 something a year now on it.

Glenlivet12

I'm in Loudoun and I pay a town tax, so my estimate with the "relief" on the first 20k is that 600 number as long as I set the formula up correctly. It is like 400 county and another 200 town.

doctorake

Where is the town tax? I am in Leesburg for mailing address but not actually in the city of Leesburg.

Glenlivet12

You made the right choice then. Leesburg town sticker runs me an additional $1 per $100 with relief on 52%. So on a new commuter worth 20k, I'd pay 428.40 to Loudoun plus 96 to Leesburg. So less than 600 but still a good chunk of coin.

Since you appear to live down the street from me, know a good mechanic?

98civdx

At that price difference I would strongly consider making the drive.
The job really is only a few hour job, especially when the tech knows what he's doing.

If they are billing $800-1000 for a 3-4 hour job, they might as well put a gun to you're head in the parking lot and steal the money.

Glenlivet12

Yeah, if you look around you can find other people doing it for less, but they aren't close to home. A dealer in Philly advertised $399 for 4-cylinder motors but does the bare minimum service. They wanted another $400 to do the seals, belts and tensioner while in there. I guess that is how they make the money back.

I got a couple quotes from dealers for the entire near-term job and it ends up closer when you consider everything together. Hamilton wants a ridiculous amount for the exhaust pipe, but is decent on the bushings. Another place is cheaper on the exhaust, similar on the bushings and more expensive on the t-belt. So if I do everything at once, it is probably not worth the drive. I still would like to get a quote from an indie garage, but I tried one today twice and couldn't get anyone. Maybe he took another day off. For what its worth, both dealer quotes for the full job are cheaper than the indie guy I went to first. And he didn't propose OEM parts.

My car is due for inspection which is why I have a bit of urgency on the exhaust and bushings. The car doesn't drive poorly nor is it very loud, but it won't pass inspection. The mechanic that checked the car over thought the bushings and exhaust would make me good for VA inspection. My worry is if I go elsewhere, I could have a change of opinion on whether my car passes or not. So I'd prefer to fix the inspection issue with the timing belt, or before it anyway.

One additional question while I have one person reading this thread. Any real problem with letting a rear main seal leak go? I probably have one (looks to be coming from that area anyway after I wiped off the bottom of the block and watched where the new oil accumulated), but it is hardly leaking a lot. Every week or so I add a bit of oil to top it off. If the biggest issue is my need to keep a supply of cardboard for underneath the car in the garage, and to keep some 5W-30 around to top it off, I'd definitely prefer to avoid paying for that repair. I've thought about trying some high mileage oil to see if it will swell up, but like I said, I don't see it as a big problem.

98civdx

You have to be careful going to shops like this. Some will really try and screw you over.

You can let a rear main leak go for a while, but I would personally change it. (then again i do stuff myself)
High mileage oil wont stop the leak, I wouldn't be surprised if it leaked more. Just keep putting basic 5w30 in it.

My civic has ~230K on it and thats what I run. No issues at all.

doctorake

I usually do all my own work and anything else goes to Andrewtech Automotive out in Gaithersburg MD, they specialize in Subarus but I know them well. Mr Tire near the DMV in leesburg seems to be somewhat honest from my experience on emissions

Glenlivet12

Yeah I've come across them while Googling various things actually. Maybe I'd go there if my Subaru wasn't 8 months old and driven by my wife. The guy might actually know the 3.6 motor better than most even though he appears to specialize in turbo Subies. Not too impressed with Dulles Subaru so far from the purchase and first service visit.

Anyway, this is why I had planned to try my hand at some things while I had this car, so I can handle more maintenance on my next one. Unfortunately it always needs to be ready by Monday morning and I don't have someone to call to bail me out when I reach the end of my abilities. I have the Haynes manual and factory service manual, but mostly just use them to work on self-diagnosing things and double checking what mechanics tell you. Still need to head back to NY to get some free tools too before I could attempt much past an oil change.

doctorake

A good option might be to buy that new car and keep the civic to learn and work on. If you do not mind paying tax on two cars? Or get a late model used honda?