mtnickel

Hey guys,
Started a thread on CB7tuner a while back, but looks like now there's a slight update.

Anyways, bottom line is that the hyundai genesis 2.0L turbo piston may be a great candidate for a budget f22 turbo build.

here's the thread for details.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...49#post3176349

I'm not convinced it's a 10:1 ratio, but will really depend on the actual dish volume of the piston. If I knew the exact head volume of the theta II engine I could calculate it as well.


That thread mostly talked about using the cast piston. Not a bad idea, but then you need to buy rings, blah blah blah. Now I see a while later that there may be a cheap forged piston out. Distributed by the same guys that sell kinugawa turbos (which are actually well made).

Here they are.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forged-Piston-STD-86-mm-Genesis-Coupe-2L-Turbo-/181238373761?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a32a61d81&vxp=mtr
They are 22mm wrist pin as well. Now for a really budget build, I wonder if the pin will be large enough to have a nice press fit into stock f22 rods. Really only shooting for 250 reliable wheel HP, and it still seems dicey doing that on stock pistons when it's a DD.

Regards,
Mark

mtnickel

Side Note:

I'm back to researching this again since I'm not too thrilled with my H23 Blue top vtec. Sure vtec is nice, but 1) I do a lot of highway and so don't want a tight ratio H-series trans, 2) The engine feels identical to the f22 up to 4500rpm (when vtec is not engaged). So for driving around town or even merging onto the freeway, it never feels that great. Really need to rev it out to feel any sort of power. With a long F series trans, that means if you are traveling between 20-55mph it will feel gutless. Can't shift down to first, and if you want to feel power in 2nd it only comes on 55-70mph. (5500-7500rpm). Sure when you drive it like you stole it from a stand still (wind out first, etc) that it goes. But that is rare.

I really really miss my turbo f22. Even with the 14B @ 11-12psi, it was FAST at any RPM. walked e46 m3 convertibles on the highway easy. LOADS of torque from 3000-4500...now that is fun to drive.

Current build is budget minded:
Here's a breakdown of what most will need to get going on a comprehensive turbo build.

From most important to least:
- Chipped Ecu with your tuning of preference (Crome free is easiest).
$60-250 depending on how resourceful you are and if you want an ostrich for real time emulation...I did = ~$250

- 2.5 Bar sensor (3 unneccessary unless you are going big and built).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Billet-Aluminium-case-1-or-2-5-bar-MAP-sensor-/271271761648?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f290e96f0&vxp=mtr$35.
Really like this one. Nice total package. You could save $15-20 if you just get the motorolla chip, but then you gotta wire it up manually and try and keep it safe/sealed, etc.

440CC injectors - $40-$100. (pd $50)

Wideband O2 sensor - $120-200. Good cheap insurance and allows you to tweak your tunes. I like to do a comprehensive tune of the cruise AFR's as most tuners don't spend much time there. This is optional if you plan to install everything and take it to a tuner immediately after.

Another side note here, you can even acquire the above well before you do the rest of your build. Break it up a bit and buy all this, install the injectors and map, put on a decent basemap.

Onto the hardware:
Ebay T3 turbo manifold - $90 Seems ok quality, probably want to gasket match the t3 outlet.

(DSM manifold with 14b/16g highly recommended for F22a builds. The 14b at 200-240whp to me is the best for a street turbo'd F22. Don't believe anyone who says it's too small or will "choke". It spools extremely fast and will hold easily to the extremely poor flowing high RPM of the stock F22 head/cam.) Considering DSM guys can coax 270AWHP (that'd be 285 FwdHP), it's safe to say the 200-240 will be well in it's reach.

If you don't have f22a, then the ebay manifolds work great. Take your pick on any t3 flanged turbo. Z31 T3 would be ok, new T3 super 60 good option, T3/t4 if you don't mind lag, RB25 turbo's are fairly common and are T3 flanged and should do 250whp as well. I have one kicking around, but it's got a big too much axial play.

I went with an IHI VF39 (stock STI turbo). Not a common flange, but I plan to just have an adapter plate made and welded to the turbo. The turbine housing has enough back spacing for studs from the manifold. It's basically the same size as a Small 16g and should flow enough for 290whp. Picked up for $175 because STI fools think they are useless if they have cracking near the wastegate.

Oil line kit: $40? Fast-turbo.com?

ARP head studs: $140. I think this is pretty essential. My last turbo f-series lifted the head and led to boiling/overflow coolant issues.

Intercooler: $50-$100. Pick size according to your HP goals. If you're going for 180-200whp, then most any side mount or stock I/C will work just fine. You will make that HP at 7-10psi where the turbo is barely generating any heat (unless it's extremely undersized).

BOV. 1G dsm a reasonable option (Rb25 stock one is also the exact same) -$10-40

Clutch $100-300 I liked my last xtd stage 3 and will probably go that route again.

then all you need is random charge piping, exhaust piping.

All the little parts do add up though.



My build also requires a decent used engine along with all the parts for that as well...timing belt kit, new seals, head gasket, etc.

Will keep you guys posted on the build.

mrj_accord

from my experience, its a good idea to get oversized rings and hone ur block 1mm over. that way u know for sure that the walls are perfectly round. also u might max out those injectors to get to 240-250 (mine are maxxed out and i'm at 250whp and its an auto)
btw look into "crushing" the 1gen BOV from the eclipse u can get more out of it.
i also went with a log manifold and its holding fine.

mtnickel

Thanks mate. going .5 or 1mm over is a good idea usually. You're right about the injectors. I'll be fine anything about 200whp really. I know the BOV will hold more pressure crushed. Forget at what PSI they are typically good to. I thought they were ok till 14-15psi, no?

Mark

GhostAccord

Those pistons are usually in the -5.5cc range for a dish volume and a stock 9:1 CR. If they are listing these at 9.3:1. they would be slightly less volume @ 4.75cc / 5cc. That would put you in the 9.7 - 10.1:1 compression ratio using an F22 block and F22 internals.

I would be more worried about the valve angles and the layout of the valve reliefs in the pistons than the compression ratio. I would need the specs on the wrist pin Ø to make any sort of comment on them working as a press fit combo.

mtnickel

I'm fairly confident the wrist pin will work out. From all I've read, a 22mm wrist pin means just that...the wrist pin is usually exactly 22mm. it's the rod small end that is either bushed (floating) or slightly smaller (for press fit) where the measurements change. I will just compare the wrist pin diameter to the speed pro f22 hypereutectics I have sitting around.

You raise a good point about the valve reliefs. Not only the angles and sizes, but also that the theta engine has the intake valves on the opposite side. It will need to be clayed to be sure.

On another note, from what I've found, I believe the stock rods may need to small end narrowed a little. The stock theta rods are narrower, and it's advisable to maintain at least 1mm clearance on either side of the small end of the rod.

I picked up a set of stock Theta pistons (arrive in a few days) and will do some tinkering with them to see if they're gonna work. Will keep you guys updated. Can anyone think of anyway to check piston valve clearance without actually boring the block and doing a test fit assembly/claying?


mark