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Old 05-14-2012, 09:48 PM   #1
butterbeer2fd
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Default B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

So in a couple months after summer I'm going to have enough money to buy a new motor, and I want to build my car correctly as in having a fully built motor (forged internals, bored, etc.) for a turbo build. My aim is 450+ whp and I'm thinking about running a 35R or 3076R or something in that range. I was reading up a bit about the differences between a B18B/C block and from what I read the B18C block has oil squirters and a block girdle while the B18C block doesn't. So how necessary is it to have these things? I know people were saying for forged internals it's not really necessary but do you guys think it's worth the cost of getting a B18C block to build rather than a B18B? If i'm to build the motor inside out, which engine would be a better choice?

Also, does it matter how old the block is? What types of things should I look for when buying an engine that I plan on building? (Like cracks in the block, etc.) Sorry if it's already been answered, I'm not too great at using the search feature -_- but link me if you know of a thread explaining this!
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

The GSR block will make it a bit less problematic to throw your VTEC head on there. I'd probably go for the GSR block as long as it isn't prohibitively more expensive than the B18B. The oil squirters will get plugged anyway, the only major difference is you'll need an LS/VTEC kit from someone like golden eagle to run your head on it.

Also, for 450+ WHP I'd look into sleeving the block.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Hm yeah, I was gonna look into sleeving the block as well, was just too lazy to add all the details into my initial post haha. As for heads, I was planning on having those built as well, ported/polished, new valves/retainers, either Skunk2 Tuner1 cams or ITR cams, and I was going to look into 3 angle valve jobs (not sure if it's necessary yet for my power goal, haven't really researched enough). Is there a difference in terms of the design of the heads of the B18C? Like aside from the cams and stuff like the actual head? Would it matter if I'm having it built and having the cams replaced and stuff?

Also, why do you say the oil squirters will have to be plugged? I want power and as much reliability as I can out of this build, I figure having them would only help??

Oh forgot to mention my car is an LS so it has a B18B1. Not sure if that makes a difference for the convenience of my build lol
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

I would go for the GSR block just because of the oil squirters and the block girdle with a LS crank.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by butterbeer2fd View Post
Hm yeah, I was gonna look into sleeving the block as well, was just too lazy to add all the details into my initial post haha. As for heads, I was planning on having those built as well, ported/polished, new valves/retainers, either Skunk2 Tuner1 cams or ITR cams, and I was going to look into 3 angle valve jobs (not sure if it's necessary yet for my power goal, haven't really researched enough). Is there a difference in terms of the design of the heads of the B18C? Like aside from the cams and stuff like the actual head? Would it matter if I'm having it built and having the cams replaced and stuff?

Also, why do you say the oil squirters will have to be plugged? I want power and as much reliability as I can out of this build, I figure having them would only help??

Oh forgot to mention my car is an LS so it has a B18B1. Not sure if that makes a difference for the convenience of my build lol
-oil squirters would only need to be blocked if using an LS crank in a GSR Block.
-Port and Polish isn't necessary
-Power goal will determine what camshafts to use if any
-B16 vs. GS-R has about a .3CR difference, but will not be much of a difference for any power goals
-look to the fuel you want to use first, then see if the power goal makes sense to do it
-Check to see if you have to worry about SMOG..
-OEM valves work just fine. this isn't NA
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Hm okay, alright well my power goal is 400 whp on pump gas (91 octane here in California), and at least 500 on race fuel. In terms of smog, it's not gonna be legal anyways so I'm just gonna say **** it lol. From what I've read so far, I was looking into going with a GT3076R .63 A/R for my build. How do I determine what the max limit 91 octane can handle will be? I won't need to have any head work done??

The thing is I want my engine to basically be brand new by the time I have the turbo on, so in terms of like rebuilding heads, I realize it's cheaper to rebuild OEM heads rather than buy new aftermarket parts for headwork, but how much cheaper would it actually be?

I was just gonna ask my builder for this aha but I'm not really at the point where I have money to do any of it yet, I'm just planning for now. When determining compression ratio and bore size, is that something you usually ask your builder? I'm not sure how to calculate the limits for 91 octane lol, I've just been kind of looking at other people's projects and their combination of parts. If not, I was gonna go with 9:1 CR and 84.5 mm bored out, for my build I'm looking for something fast but responsive too, I want to hit the track like every 3-4 weeks while still being able to have it as a weekend car.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by butterbeer2fd View Post
Hm okay, alright well my power goal is 400 whp on pump gas (91 octane here in California), and at least 500 on race fuel. In terms of smog, it's not gonna be legal anyways so I'm just gonna say **** it lol. From what I've read so far, I was looking into going with a GT3076R for my build. How do I determine what the max limit 91 octane can handle will be? I won't need to have any head work done??

The thing is I want my engine to basically be brand new by the time I have the turbo on, so in terms of like rebuilding heads, I realize it's cheaper to rebuild OEM heads rather than buy new aftermarket parts for headwork, but how much cheaper would it actually be?

I was just gonna ask my builder for this aha but I'm not really at the point where I have money to do any of it yet, I'm just planning for now. When determining compression ratio and bore size, is that something you usually ask your builder? I'm not sure how to calculate the limits for 91 octane lol, I've just been kind of looking at other people's projects and their combination of parts.
That's not going to happen. Especially with 91 Octane "swill water". Plan for about 300-330whp or so at 91 octane MAXIMUM. There's not that much that needs to be done to the head, in the way of port/polish or new valves. that really isn't necessary. A good set of camshafts (GSCs S1 Turbo ) a good valvespring and retainer kit is all you need.

As for bore size and all that, it depends upon whether or not you want toreiforce, be it with the use of sleeves or "support systems" (hey, I'm just using the term, no disrespect intended..) or other reinforcement for over 500whp, but I would definitely do something to that effect after 400whp in your neck of the woods. For sleeving, 81mm-84.5mm is what can be used, but going bigger bore doesn't help if it doesn't have good accompanying stroke (you can reseach other builds with goals similar to yours). But even 81mm can do wonders when matched with the right turbocharger. All depends upon your goals and your pocketbook.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Ooh okay, so I was thinking (this is really far ahead but yeah lol) and eventually I'd want to have it so that I have a fuel cell in the back with race fuel and just normal pump gas in the tank. Is there a way that you could just switch to like a 'race mode' and switch to the race fuel?

Also, what would you suggest me to put into the search box to find the right combo of bore/stroke?

And I just realized I'm getting way off topic from what I originally asked hahaha, so what I've concluded is that I should go with a b18b1 and just go LS/Vtec. How necessary is it to have the block girdle and how much do those run for if I did want one?
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Also I've been browsing around and found this thread
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/16...-pump-gas.html
Are you sure it's not possible to achieve 400whp on 91 oct?? What determines the limit for 91 oct? Is it the turbo size orr? I'm confused now haha
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
For sleeving, 81mm-84.5mm is what can be used, but going bigger bore doesn't help if it doesn't have good accompanying stroke (you can reseach other builds with goals similar to yours). But even 81mm can do wonders when matched with the right turbocharger. All depends upon your goals and your pocketbook.
agreed. building a motor for a turbo setup isnt that difficult, and most things are not needed like NA. 81mm will do you fine. it will also give you room to rework if you change your mind or something may happen. Iron ductile sleeves can take a beating. as for the head. oem sized valves are fine with a performance 5 angle valve. even GSR cams can get you to a good power goal. you dont need all that over sized stuff. all though my build has lots of money in it this should still show what we mean. This is the basics of my 2012 True street build. Jeff Evans @ Evans Tuning is the tuner, im looking to top this setup out (due to stock helical gear tranny) around 850-900hp @35-40psi could do more could do less. but thats what im thinking as of now.

81mmx87mm (stock bore size and stroke CR 11:1)
NON PORT AND POLISH(performance valve job)
skunk2 valves (oem size)
Pro1 cams
E85



Just dont make it complicated.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Nice build, checked out your build thread haha. This is kind of more off topic but in terms of B18B head and B18C head, does it make a difference if I'm changing out cams/valves/springs/retainers?

Also, one of my main concerns is that I'm planning on pulling my B18B that's currently in my car, and having that rebuilt, but I want a reliable build (in essence, I basically want to have a brand new motor) so does it make a difference if there's 200K on my motor currently if I'm switching out all the internals anyways?
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

go with a GS-R block. im running a B18B block for my LS-V turbo setup but gona ditch it soon and go full GS-R turbo with my Garret 57 Trim
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

any specific reason why your b18b setup isn't treating you well?
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:53 AM   #15
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

gsr ftw
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

so which one do you think I should go for and why? haha
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

You can run the oil squirters with a LS crank, you need to modify them a bit but it can be done. Also depends on what pistons you are using. Most people just remove them because they are not necessary but they are really nice to have if you can get them not to contact.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: B18B vs B18C block for turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealnanoHX View Post
You can run the oil squirters with a LS crank, you need to modify them a bit but it can be done. Also depends on what pistons you are using. Most people just remove them because they are not necessary but they are really nice to have if you can get them not to contact.
when we build a motor (referring to people that actually know how to build a motor correct and know the reason why we do things the way we do.) with aluminum forged pistons we dont remove the oil squirters just because they are not necessary...THERE IS A REASON WE DO. if they werent necessary i would just leave them in and not bother. they are removed and plug with GOLDEN EAGLE PLUGS $25. the reason is that the aluminum forged pistons DONT NEED THE OIL SQUIRTERS to keep them cool/lubed because the piston can disperse heat better and take a beating. in turn plugging your oil sqirters allows more oil pressure on your bearings keep your motor happy... SO! if i were you and your are installing forged pistons in a GSR block also plug your sqirters. almost all top engine builders that race and build these motors know this. it is more import to keep your bearings oiled then the forged pisons that can take it with out the squirters.
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