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Old 02-04-2012, 07:27 PM   #1
smallttocs
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Default Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Did a head gasket. During removal, I set the crank pulley to TDC w/ the timing belt cover.

Took off the crank pulley and the timing was advanced when compared to oil pump mark w/ crank gear. So I lined it up to oil pump mark.

Upon reassembly, lined up the crank gear perfectly to mark on oil pump, again. Cam gears were perfect. Put on the cover and sure enough, the crank pulley was retarded, or past, the timing cover mark.

Which do I go by??? Found two other similar threads but no answers. GSR, all OEM parts.
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

I'm not sure what you mean by oil pump mark, if thats the same as the timing belt cover

or if 'crank gear' is the same as cam gear? or crank pulley?


Basically, you need to look at two things

1 - If your camshafts are at TDC, so there should be a hole in the camshaft, that lines up with the punches in the cam cap (at least for the ls). Also they should say 'top' and the lines should line up

Click the image to open in full size.

2 - If the crank pulley groove matches the timing belt cover line, you are GOOD!

I dont understand why you are taking the crank pulley off and looking at ****. Explain using proper terms since I am confused
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Those are proper terms. There are two different marks for TDC; one on the timing belt cover that lines up with the white mark on the crank pulley. The other is the crankshaft gear mark to the oil pump mark. They don't match.

Cams and cam gears were perfect when the belt was installed using the oil pump mark.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

More info because I know these questions will arise:

- New OEM tensioner spring and pulley
- Lined up and turned 3 teeth, then tightened tensioner

Everything was done by the book. I assume the oil pump / crank gear would be the one to go by if you had to choose between the two.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallttocs View Post
Those are proper terms. There are two different marks for TDC; one on the timing belt cover that lines up with the white mark on the crank pulley. The other is the crankshaft gear mark to the oil pump mark. They don't match.

Cams and cam gears were perfect when the belt was installed using the oil pump mark.
Never heard of this.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

I think I know what you are saying


That where the crank pulley 'key' goes, doesn't line up with this mark on the oil pump?

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Okay so this is what I think, since the crank pulley can actually fail, and the outside portion can separate from the inside portion, id trust the inside portion, since the key is directly attached to the crankshaft. Assuming the 'key' and the tdc groove in the crank pulley both point in the same direction, and that the oil pump mark and lower timing cover mark line up with respect to eachother, id trust the inside one

Dude find another crank pulley this sounds wrong....
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

That mark isn't for the key. It's for the mark on the crank gear to the left of the crank gear key.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

This is roughly what the oil pump looks like when I have things aligned w/ the timing belt cover (this is not from my actual motor though)

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

so roughly how many degrees difference is there?
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Without going back out to the garage tonight, I would estimate about 5 degrees.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

So your saying with the oil pump and gear lined up when you put on the pulley it doesn't match?just line it up using oil pump and gear and not using crank pulley and timing cover
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Exactly
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

So go off the oil pump and gear not the crank pulley and timing cover
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

throw a screwdriver in the #1 cylinder spark plug hole. see if the piston is at tdc with the gear and pump cover lined up.
although, the piston will have a few crank degrees of dwell time.
are you sure you're not mistaking the 14-18*btdc marks with the single white tdc mark?
the timing cover mark should line up with the single white line off on its own on the pulley. not the other 3
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

dear members.

this question comes up on various forums.
i've got the same problem.
swapped a low milage jdm b18c gsr.
replaced belt waterpump tensionpulley and spring,all oem.
now the marks on cams and crankgear are good.
but with crankpulley the white mark is advanced about 2 or 3 degrees.
i could not find the right answer,dont get me wrong i am no expert.
how can it be that you guys take whole engines apart,some blindfolded with only left hand put em back together make em run flawless.
some smart remarks on,has the deck been resurfaced?
did make me think,so if you take some of the head marks will slightly change.
but what when the engine heats up,block will expand change the marks also?
is it that what manual says,belt change with engine cold.
and set ignition timing when engine at operate temp.?
i am sure the belt gets tighter when at op. temp.
maybe some of you with chopped valve covers can easely check.
please come on gentlemen lets crack this.
side note,be aware that some crankpulleys crack on the rubber innerpiece.
thats another story.
hope to hear from you.
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

I've had this problem before on other honda motors as well and when it happens I do what el crapitan already mentioned, I stick something in the #1 cylinder to find true TDC. The problem with looking at timing marks is that you can get into trouble due to parallax. It is also possible for the timing marks on the crank dampener to be off if the dampener rubber is failing. The timing belt cover may also be warped from age. There are many contributing factors.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: Timing Belt: Oil Pump and Belt Cover TDC Marks DON'T MATCH

Putting something in the cylinder doesn't sound like a good way either because of the dwell of the piston at TDC even when the crank is still turning. You would need a dial indicator or piston stop and a degree wheel to accurately determine TDC with any appreciable accuracy.

I bet you could get the either pair of marks to line up using the cylinder position to judge TDC.
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