TurTLe*

Working on a friend of mines car. I'm not exactly up to par on my older car parts anymore.

Its a 92 accord EX sedan with like 180k. While driving the battery and oil light came up, pulled over and shut of the car. Went to turn it on again and nothing. I asked if he noticed if when the lights turned on if the car shut off but he didn't notice at the time. I thought maybe his alternator or the serp belts had gone out. But after i saw the belts in place, i ruled those out.


Now its sitting on the street, been about 2 weeks now. It cranks pretty much like it wants to start. I crawled into the trunk after i found out the fuel pump wasn't under the rear seats. When he cycles the key i can hear the pump prime. One would assume pump is good. I pulled a plug out and put it on the end of the wire, had him crank it and saw no spark.

I ohmed out the igntion coil on top of the disturbutor, from the connector A+C= .3 ohms and A to 2ndary coil was 19.xx K ohms. all within spec, for good measure i went to autozone and picked one up it was $70. put it in and still nothing.

Looking around i saw the negative cable, the part that is suppose to run down to what looks like a engine block ground, that negative cable had snapped off, But it looks like just a engine block ground. The car has all interior lights on and doesn't seem like a battery problem so i didn't put that into count, i'll replace that later but i didn't credit that to a no start. SHOULD It matter?

Where could be go next? Someone told me i can do some OBD 1 fault checking on the pass kick panel like on the civics?

TurTLe*

65 views and no one.

Been reading about a igniter, trying to find out what it does and where i can get one.

bdmlilburn

that ground that attaches to the transmission you mean? yes you need this for sure. make sure the ground by the timing belt cover and also the ground on the thermostat housing have good solid connections

TurTLe*

ah yes. honda puts their tranys on the pass side correct. that is needed but not causing that car not to start tho. its grounded at other points. Its something that needs to be fixed for sure but after i get the car started.

or is it holding me back? the car feels like it has a strong battery power. it looks like it has been broken for a while.

bdmlilburn

regardless ground wires are easy to fix. i would make sure they are all in proper condition before moving any further. i just had a 90 accord not starting on me because of ground wires. the wire going from the tranny to the body is one of the main grounds also. no im not positive on this but it did connect directly to the stock negative terminal of the battery and was larger wire compared to the other engine grounds. it does not have to be connected to the battery though. mine connects directly from the tranny to the body-because my battery is in the trunk and i do not run a negative all the way from the front to the back

also just remember there is a ground wire under the fuse box in the engine bay.though this wont be disconnected unless the fuse box had been removed most likely

you will also be able to find a bundle of black wires hooked up to a connector that bolts right to the chassis on each side of the engine bay next to the headlights. these are also all ground wires

remove that little 12mm bolt on the fuel rail once the fuel pump has primed and make sure there is fuel in there. some should squirt out. if not then the fuel is not getting pressure-regulator-filter-pump-hose from regulator to tank clogged

is there any backfiring while cranking?



in my drunken stupor i missed that the battery and oil light came on. any oil leaking/abnormal sounds coming from around timing belt cover area?
-check oil level
-test alternator
-test battery
-i would also check the alt and bat connections at the under the hood fuse box and make sure all the major fuses look ok

did the engine act weird once the lights came on?

Reecepieces

Does the car start but if you drive for a while, park and shut off the car it won't start until it sits for a little while? Does the car want to crank over but seem to stall and it's usually when it's warm outside? If so I have been having the same problem and I did a number of things, replace spark plugs and wires because I needed to anyway and I just found out my battery wasn't holding a full charge and my negative cable was corroded, so I'm going to replace both and see if that works. I thought it could be one of three things that would be a symptom of the car cranking over but either stalling out or have a difficult time starting. The three things I came across during my research were, the main relay, the coil, and the igniter, but when I connected my diagnostics machine to my 98 Acura 2.5tl none of the codes for any of the three came up. Odd huh? Anyway, I think with my research it might actually help you out. Here's a link to a video on Youtube on how the main relay is a fairly common problem with Acura's, what happens is that the solder on the main relay goes bad and needs to be desoldered then resoldered. I pulled mine and there were noticeable breaks in the solder, make sure you desolder instead of just putting new solder over the old because if you do it's just like putting a band aid on a compound fracture. There are related videos on how to trouble shoot the main relay as well. http://youtu.be/YmyGitt-CPI I also watched several "Scotty Kilmer" videos on no start causes and how to check if the fuel pump is going bad by simple loosening the top nut on the fuel filter and turning the key to the "2" position to see if any there is any fuel pressure. Also a way to see if the main relay is working properly or not. http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ty+kilmer&aq=f
Here's a Honda site with useful information about the main relay, igniter, as well as the coil. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/index.html I haven't come across any info about a ground cable causing a crank over/no start condition so I can't provide any info there. If you happen to fix your problem please let me know. I'm currently working on my car and will post if I find any success. Good luck.

TurTLe*

i wasnt driving when it died. but once it died it was the last time it worked.

when testing the ignitor, what exactly are you testing? if it has voltage going to it? or resistance between contacts? hopefully everything comes off nicely.

battery should be ruled out as there are jumper cables connected when trying to start. i can check the alternator once the car is started. starting the car > charging the car.

no backfiring because there doesn't seem to be spark.

theone786

bump...

TurTLe*

i replaced the ignitor/ control module. $50 part.

I now have spark, looks to be a weak spark, but a spark none the less.

It doesn't want to start tho, it acts like it wants to start, i hold the throttle all the way open and it feels like it catching sometimes it does but it doesn't stay on. maybe i goofed the igniter wires...

I had the other hand holding the ground cable to the trans as well, just to eliminate that.

So now i'm at a stand still, i thought about starting fluid into the TB and seeing if that could help it, but i didnt have any on hand so i went home.



recap, jumper cables on, fuel pump heard priming, now have a spark. still no start.

i didn't remove the distrubtor so i dont have to mess with the timing,

thoughts?

Reecepieces

Did you check to see if you had fuel pressure as related to the main relay? I thought I had the right negative battery cable and come to find out it didn't even come near the original part. So I'm now worried that if I put in a different cable that I'll have other problems, I ordered an OEM Negative battery cable and hopefully it should be here soon. Possibilities of what might be the cause, Ignition coil since there is weak spark or the distributor cap if there is a crack in it or if oil leaked into the cap. I was hesitant to pull the distributor cap from my Acura because with the engineering genius of Acura they mounted the straight 5 cylinder sideways and there is about an inch and a half of clearance between the cap and the firewall closest to the cabin of the car. If you do happen to pull the cap just make sure you mark it and where it's mounted to so you can put it back into the right position without worry about the timing. There are a few videos at the same sites I linked before on how to remove the cap and mark it. I wouldn't wish working on my car on my worst enemy that's how much of a PIO that this car is to work on. Anyway, I hope that you have more luck than I have had.

Reecepieces

It might be best to hook up a diagnostics machine to the car and see if any useful codes pop up. Since your working on a '92 here's a link to a OBD 1 scanner.

http://www00.mailcar.net/catalog/ind...+by+Actron+NEW

I recently bought a Craftsmen OBDII scanner for $89, you can buy OBDI adapters off of E-bay for cheap, I just purchased a GM one for $8. Not sure if you want to invest in something like that but Sears does have a return policy as well.

TurTLe*

my coil ohmed out exactly within spec. The rotor was good when i pulled it. By good i mean looked physically good. Its keyed one way because the end has a D shaped and so does the rotor.

I dont toy around with older honda enough to valid a use for a OBD1 tool. i have a couple of OBD2 stuff.

I tried to use the paperclip on the service port on the pass kick panel but that doesn't seem to be working. I put in the paperclip the CEL stays on doesn't blink to give me anything.

In some ways i'm leaning towards that main relay. been reading on it, i thought the relay powered the fuel pump, but now i found it powers the injectors.

So i'm going back in the morning with starting fluid, spray into the TB. That should tell me if its fuel related or not. I was a little shocked no MAF sensor or anything on the intake pipe.

bdmlilburn

didnt think any of the 90(or lower) accords had maf sensors on the intake tubes. lots have the intake air resonator sensor though. though it doesn't really matter. figure out why the oil light came on

TurTLe*

yea so it seems that way with the MAF/MAP sensor.

i figure the oil light/ battery light came on because the car actually died out and my friend didn't notice.

kinda weird if the main relay and the igniter would die at the same time, so no fuel OR spark. I'm having a hard time believing in that idea. BUT it is a car with almost 180k miles and the history is very questionable. Bright side is everything seems to cost about $50 each.

Lost Again

CEL staying on when the wires are jumped means there are no stored codes...weak spark after replacing the icm (none before)....I'd double check the wires for good connection.

Reecepieces

I forgot to add that I had to clean my IACV as well, it was all gunked up and my car would jerk as it was shifting through the gears as well as give me the same random crank over no-start condition. I read that it could cause the car to stall and create a crank over with no-start condition depending on how dirty it got. It's a simple part to remove and clean, just a thought though. Good luck with the main relay, it's a fairly simple part to remove once you locate it, I used a small common screw driver and inserted it on one side of the case and then the other and was able to pull it out and disconnect it, it's a kind of an odd connector but if you've had experience with other honda type electrical connectors I'm sure you will have no problems disconnecting it should it turn out you aren't getting any fuel pressure. I'll cross my fingers and hope that it's a quick fix for you. Thanks for the updates, I really do appreciate it. I'm very curious if this type of crank over no-start condition is a another common reoccurring thing with Honda's/Acura's.

hondadriver

I owned a 90 and 93 accord. And both had this same situation as this. The first one had no spark, I started replaceing **** inside the distributor and still nothing. I replaced the entire distributor and bam it started up. On the 93 accord I was pulling into the parking lot at work and the car died. Did some troubleshooting, and replaced the distributor and bam the car started up.

Distributors arent cheap, so I dont want you to spend the money and have it not be the issue and blame me. I'm just shareing my experience. And if you do a google search on this generation accord, theres a history with them having failing distributors.

TurTLe*

Well it started~!!!

Needed a control module in the distrubitor and main relay. It didn't have fuel or spark AT THE SAME TIME.

Now i just need to replace that main ground cable when i get time. Hopefully this car doesn't cost anymore money over the winter.