AznBlueBoy

I searched about this damper which is the one im going to get but I found that everyone was running them on their B series motors. I found that the H series dampers had a problem with clearance with the timing cover for H motors. Has this issue been fixed?

Also the "bisi" spec ati damper is the exact same as a normal ati super damper from what I found in my search.

I know the main purpose is not power but does anyone have any dynos with just putting this pulley on? Bisi's description of this damper claims 45whp on turbo applications and 12whp - 30whp on NA, lower boost applications but we all know about Bisi.

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

Even if its just the alt. and has the ac/ps removed you wont see those type of power gains....

Julio@Bisimoto

With high horse power/high rpm applications utilizing a ATI damper large hp gains are not uncommon being that timing accuracy is greatly improved due to reducing crankshaft torsional twisting that would be transmitted to camshaft and ignition timing inaccuracies.

Another advantage of a proper damper would be greatly reducing stress to the crank shaft, bearings and oil pump gears reducing the chances of mechanical failures. This has been proved time and time again on any serious build race engines.

All Ati dampers including B-series do require modifications of the timing belt covers for proper fitment. As well Bisi was part of the design and development of ATI dampener for both the D-series and F/H-series.

AznBlueBoy

Yes I know it wouldn't make the power bisi claims on this damper but would it gain 5whp-10whp even?
I'v ran my fully built H22 for about 25k miles now and it's running as strong as ever.

AznBlueBoy

bump for some more info on this damper.

Julio@Bisimoto

power gain will greatly vary depending on your current setup. As I mentioned on the previous post the damper will prevent the torsional twists of the crankshaft at high rpm which will directly effect your ignition timing and camshaft timing. This will translate into additional power because of consistent timing.

Fink29

I run one one my 2.1L B series. When I was doing my research many moons ago I didnt find any information about it making whp. I purchased it for the piece of mind that it will make my bottom end "safer". Allowing my motor to last longer. Everything Bisi puts his name on make some serious power gains!

HTurbo845

bump for h series guys running this dampner. not looking for a hp gain just want to know if this is a better option then buying an oem dampner

negusjuda

Everything Bisi puts his name on make some serious power gains!

Uncle Dave

Do we need a 3rd party to test this as well ?
In your first post you CLAIM it makes LARGE gains but when someone calls you out you back it up with another twist on your first claim and say power gain will greatly vary depending on your current setup.So is this also going to turn into another header debate?

Fink29

Uncle Dave, I wouldn't even bother with this bullshit. I just goes to show that they are full of ****!

met

I have an ati on my 83mm b18c 450whp. I noticed less engine vibration compared to the stock damper and they are easy to rebuild. If you do some looking I am not sure about na but with turbo cars with crank twisting more than it was intended can break oil pump rings, also if you have aluminum flywheels can open up the holes where they bolt on the crank. I guess to sum it up it takes what the factory does to the next level. This is the first time I have heard anyone mention hp gains, its all about reducing crank torsional twisting.

Just wanted to add with the b-series with either the obd1 or obd 2 both fit on mine with out modification. Maybe someone can post some pictures or even say if its a problem for the H that really knows.

AznBlueBoy

I talked to mike from lackey racing and he said the fitment issue was fixed. In his opinion, he says I probably wouldn't gain any power but it will make my engine last longer which we know. But I think if I get the bisi spec damper which costs more then anywhere else I found, I'd see the gains claimed by bisi. Maybe I'll do a before and after dyno with this damper. See what happens.

Julio@Bisimoto

There was no twist in my first claim only facts. A full race turbo application will show a larger power increase over a near stock all motor setup. The reason being that a higher hp/rpm setups will have far more torsional twist applied onto a crankshaft that will affect cam timing more drastically.

AznBlueBoy

You claim that there are 12hp - 30hp gains on 240whp+ high revving NA motors.

I would be shocked if it gained 10whp at 7500rpm on my motor which made 257whp.

Quoted from your website.
Dyno tests have proven the Super Damper® will allow the engine to produce as much as 45 HP over a Fluidampr at 7,500 RPMs and commonly 12 to 30 HP over OEM and other aftermarket brands in high boost appkcations. Timing accuracy is vastly imporved, and hence huge power gains are realized.


This is a must have for high rpm road race, auto-x, drag race and street/strip 240whp+ boosted and high rpm all motor setups.

Does my motor not qualify as a street/strip 240whp+ high rpm all motor setup?

Again, I would be amazed if it made the smallest of your claims on this damper and am not saying that I should gain 45hp on my setup. I don't even believe it would make 10whp but once I get the damper regardless of how much power it makes, I am getting it for my motor to last longer. But I will post results once I get this done.

Julio@Bisimoto

If you read carefully it states: "commonly 12 to 30 HP over OEM and other aftermarket brands in high boost applications"

nothing stated about all motor setups

Then it says

"This is a must have for high rpm road race, auto-x, drag race and street/strip 240whp+ boosted and high rpm all motor setups."

Which has no HP claims just a recommendation for all motor setups.

But I would love to see testing on a low HP NA setup like yours as well.

PyroProblem

Julio- Does the ATI Damper actually reduce torsional vibrations?
Or does it just absorb them?

So to my understanding, this would add HP kinda like a trigger wheel system would? By having more precise spark and less timing "drift" at high RPMs???

Thank you for explaining. I plan on eventually getting one to help in harmonics but didn't realize a gain in HP might be seen as well

Julio@Bisimoto

The ATI damper is designed to absorb and counteract crankshaft twist.

Yes more precise spark and less timing drift at high rpms and engine load. Of course investing on a proper crank/cam trigger for example like a AEM EPM as well will add to more accuracy to ignition timing.

It is well worth investing on a proper engine damper.

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

Lets think this through logically...in simple terms.

We have a crankshaft with a crank pulley on one end, a flywheel/clutch on the other and pistons/rods in the middle.

What causes this "torsional twisting"? The flywheel/clutch is attached to a 2700lb car and then the piston/rod pushes down on the "arm" of the crankshaft. The twisting occurs because as the rod pushes down on the crank, the flywheel side doesn't want to move (or doesnt move fast enough) and thus the crank twists. The factors involved are: how fast the rod is pressing down on the crank (RPMs), how much resistance is on the flywheel (ie, what gear, chassis weight, etc...higher gears will experience more twisting), and what the torsional rigidity of the crank is.

Keep in mind, the timing is driven off the camshaft, thus the twisting of the cams matters as well. As well as any "stretch" in the timing belt. Also keep in mind that the timing belt is driven off a solid metal pulley on the crank and NOT the crank pulley.

Next, since you have 4 pistons firing a hundred or so times per second, you have to worry about harmonics and vibrations. This is where having a big chunk of rubber attached to the end of your crank helps. Besides making your engine smoother, without dampening, your bearings tend to go bad much much quicker. However, there can be other benefits as well...

Now you have to realize that how much rubber, hardness, thickness, location, etc will dampen those harmonics differently. Like all things in life, certain combinations work better at certain RPMs and Loads than others. Thus, no dampener is "perfect" for all applications.

So, typically you will find that certain dampeners do a better job at a specific RPM than the competitors...and ofcourse that is what they advertise on.

On a side note, my primary issue with certain designs is that they used the same "core" for most pulleys. By doing they they are using the same pulley on different motors that have different needs. A chevy 350 from 1960 is different than a K20 built in 2002.

Other thoughts - Some pulleys have rubber bands (or whatever term you would prefer to use) and must be rebuilt. Certain pulleys underdrive the accessories, which typically does make more power...

Bottom line - good luck with your decision!

Uncle Dave

Dude do you really believe the crap you write in case you don't know this is the ALL MOTOR forum not the FULLRACE FORCED INDUCTION forum.I really am at a lose as to how someone as smart as Bisi has monkey's work for him that just write crap and try to justify there position in the industry.I really want to see a dyno from someone other than Bisi on your claims,now lets jump a bit left field here a 400ci sprintcar engine makes 800+hp and does not run a balancer at all so maybe you really need to think before you reply with a sales pitch type reply making out a product does alot more than it really will in the REAL world.

Uncle Dave

Can you give me the link to the FACTS please I would really like to read them or is it in a book somewhere that you guys wrote?

Julio@Bisimoto

Uncle Dave there is no need for being disrespectful or get work up about what I said about ATI Dampers. There are advantages for both NA and turbo applications. As well further advantages on higher HP setups that will have more severe crankshaft torsional twist.

There are many books/articles on engine building and theory as well much information of testing of engine dampers on race/street applications with reasons why they are important and advantages given by it. You can do all the research you like on this matter.

ATI dampers have been proven on Nascar, NHRA, sport compact racing and so on year after year.

As far as Sprint cars those vehicles were built specifically to run with out an external dampers as well they do not have a flywheel and have natural damping effect through the mechanical water pump connected to the snout of the crankshaft.

Uncle Dave

So you still can not provide any real results or tests to prove your claims and yet you just come back with the same answers saying its proven to make gains,you dont need to sell them to me I already run a ATI on 1 of my engines and I also run STD OEM ITR unit on many of my B series engines that I have built. Now in the 20+years I have played with Honda engines/cars never have I seen the gains from a single product like Bisi claims.

Uncle Dave

I got alot of info yesterday in a shipment looks like I really need to back to back test the ATI unit vs a OEM ITR unit if the claims are true I will see a gain in high RPM power.

PyroProblem

If you test this and see anything over 8whp on a naturally aspirated 2L setup, I will buy order one ASAP...

I was planning on getting one just for the reduction in crankshaft harmonics, but if it adds HP also, that is just icing on the cake!

I'm like you Dave, skeptical of any claims made by ANY company until I see proof...

Ever since I bought that Tornado....