My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
01-02-2013, 09:14 AM
#3176
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
This is the arrangement you want the gears when the crank is aligned. This shows both cams retarded a few deg
01-02-2013, 09:28 AM
#3179
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
In that pic ^^ you should be able to set the dials to zero, then just line the cam gears up without moving the cams (harder than it sounds I know). If you are at TDC and zero across the board you should be good to go. I have never dealt with adjustable cam gears so I am sure I am over simplifying. I also know you dont want another motor failure so I feel your hesitancy. Another question is, is bisi gonna change the cam degrees anyways while he is tuning the car?
01-02-2013, 09:42 AM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
okay just to clarify, I started over.
Removed the Timing belt, set both cam gear settings back to (0) lined all the marks up, reinstalled the belt and checked my numbers. I have not moved anything else. So right now with the crank at true TDC the cam gears line up as so. Here are the measurements again.
ex opens .040" @ 60 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 20 deg ATDC
Max Lift @ 111.15 deg BTDC
In open .040" @ 36 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 50 deg ABDC
Max lift @ 97.5 deg ATDC
Removed the Timing belt, set both cam gear settings back to (0) lined all the marks up, reinstalled the belt and checked my numbers. I have not moved anything else. So right now with the crank at true TDC the cam gears line up as so. Here are the measurements again.
ex opens .040" @ 60 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 20 deg ATDC
Max Lift @ 111.15 deg BTDC
In open .040" @ 36 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 50 deg ABDC
Max lift @ 97.5 deg ATDC
01-02-2013, 09:52 AM
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01-02-2013, 10:36 AM
#3184
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
okay just to clarify, I started over.
Removed the Timing belt, set both cam gear settings back to (0) lined all the marks up, reinstalled the belt and checked my numbers. I have not moved anything else. So right now with the crank at true TDC the cam gears line up as so. Here are the measurements again.
ex opens .040" @ 60 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 20 deg ATDC
Max Lift @ 111.15 deg BTDC
In open .040" @ 36 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 50 deg ABDC
Max lift @ 97.5 deg ATDC
Removed the Timing belt, set both cam gear settings back to (0) lined all the marks up, reinstalled the belt and checked my numbers. I have not moved anything else. So right now with the crank at true TDC the cam gears line up as so. Here are the measurements again.
ex opens .040" @ 60 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 20 deg ATDC
Max Lift @ 111.15 deg BTDC
In open .040" @ 36 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 50 deg ABDC
Max lift @ 97.5 deg ATDC
I'm thinking this problem is in the cam its self at the moment.
01-02-2013, 10:50 AM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
okay here are my events after I followed your advice on gear settings
Advance:
Intake 5.75 deg on the gear
Exhaust 2 deg on the gear
ex opens .040" @ 64.5 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 15.75 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 52.75 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 38.25 deg ABDC
----------------------------
Camshaft Card Specs
ex opens .040" @ 62 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 12 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 21 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 59 deg ABDC
Advance:
Intake 5.75 deg on the gear
Exhaust 2 deg on the gear
ex opens .040" @ 64.5 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 15.75 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 52.75 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 38.25 deg ABDC
----------------------------
Camshaft Card Specs
ex opens .040" @ 62 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 12 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 21 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 59 deg ABDC
01-02-2013, 10:55 AM
#3187
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Happy New Years Californiadad! Your project is coming along very nicely and looking forward to the completion!
Factory markings are never perfect for both TDC and camshaft aliment. Then with machining of the block or cylinder head it will throw it off even further...
As long as you have the true TDC of the crankshaft and are degreeing the camshafts utilizing opening and closing numbers, it does not mater what the cam gear markings will show.
01-02-2013, 11:04 AM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Happy New Years Californiadad! Your project is coming along very nicely and looking forward to the completion!
Factory markings are never perfect for both TDC and camshaft aliment. Then with machining of the block or cylinder head it will throw it off even further...
As long as you have the true TDC of the crankshaft and are degreeing the camshafts utilizing opening and closing numbers, it does not mater what the cam gear markings will show.
I was hoping to have the car completed so I can bring it in for a break-in and tune this week, but I have been fighting this timing alignment thing for the last 3 days Uggg. I have established true crankshaft TDC using a dial indicator for the number #1 piston. So what your saying is align the cam gear timing marks as close as I can, and then start dialing in my open and close events from there right?
01-02-2013, 11:11 AM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Can you please post up a picture with all the timing marks at TDC without the timing belt on sir? To me it seems like the cams are moving on you when you are trying to put your timing belt on. I borrowed a cam lock tool from my old job Majestic Honda to ensure that the cams do not move on me while I did my timing belt. Please excuse my ignorance as I have never degreed in cams. Therefore I do not know if you degree the cams in before or after you put the timing belt on.
01-02-2013, 11:20 AM
#3192
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Thanks Julio!
I was hoping to have the car completed so I can bring it in for a break-in and tune this week, but I have been fighting this timing alignment thing for the last 3 days Uggg. I have established true crankshaft TDC using a dial indicator for the number #1 piston. So what your saying is align the cam gear timing marks as close as I can, and then start dialing in my open and close events from there right?
I was hoping to have the car completed so I can bring it in for a break-in and tune this week, but I have been fighting this timing alignment thing for the last 3 days Uggg. I have established true crankshaft TDC using a dial indicator for the number #1 piston. So what your saying is align the cam gear timing marks as close as I can, and then start dialing in my open and close events from there right?
Sounds good, when you get it dialed in give us a call for an appointment!
Correct, the markings on the cam gears are irrelevant when degreeing camshafts. Get them close, then start dialing them in.
01-02-2013, 11:20 AM
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01-02-2013, 12:58 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
okay as it stands right now my events are as follows.
Intake Gear Setting -6
Exhaust gear Setting +3
Ex opens .040" @ 64 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 16 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 22 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 63 deg ABDC
------------------------------------------------
Camshaft Card Specs
Ex opens .040" @ 62 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 12 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 21 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 59 deg ABDC
This appears to be as close as I can get the opening and closing events. If I make any adjustments to get me closer to either event it throws the opposing even farther from spec. Example if I get the intake open event dead on 21 deg its sends my close event to 66 deg.
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Intake Gear Setting -6
Exhaust gear Setting +3
Ex opens .040" @ 64 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 16 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 22 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 63 deg ABDC
------------------------------------------------
Camshaft Card Specs
Ex opens .040" @ 62 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 12 deg ATDC
In open .040" @ 21 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 59 deg ABDC
This appears to be as close as I can get the opening and closing events. If I make any adjustments to get me closer to either event it throws the opposing even farther from spec. Example if I get the intake open event dead on 21 deg its sends my close event to 66 deg.
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01-02-2013, 01:10 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
If i move the intake gear 1 whole tooth clockwise that is going to make my timing marks way off. Remember when I had the head on the bench and I was checking valve to valve clearance I had the cam gear timing marks lined up. So if i do that my chart I made is useless.
01-02-2013, 01:37 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
I have added enough confusion here.... I believe CD has the cams adjusted properly in spec now. It is very strange that the intake cam wants to be set a tooth off to be "proper". I hope to get my hands dirty this weekend.
01-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
intake - 5.5
exhaust + 3
Ex opens .040" @ 64 deg BBDC
Ex closes .040" @ 15 deg ATDC
To check max lift Exhaust I measured @.050" before max was 74 deg and 156 deg @ .050" after peak so 74+156= 230 divide by 2 = 115 Deg max lift center
In open .040" @ 24 deg BTDC
In closes .040" @ 61 deg ABDC
To check max lift Intake I measured @.050" before max was 68 deg and 150 deg @ .050" after peak so 68+150= 218 divide by 2 = 109 Deg max lift center
BINGO!!!!
so final numbers are
Intake retard -5.5
Exhaust advance +3