craigers

when its really cold out, the check engine light in my girlfriends car comes on and is hard to start. it takes 3 or 4 tries.

When i checked for the codes i got:
8 short flashes, pause 1 long flash, pause, 2 short flashes.

I am having a hard time deciphering exactly what this means.

any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Craig

redbull-1

Probably DTC 8 - TDC and DTC 12 - EGR lift valve.

http://techauto.awardspace.com/dtc.html

fiveten

the 8 is for a tdc sensor inside the distributor, you will prob. need a distributor. 12 is for a fault in the egr system.

craigers

the distributor is brand new (don't know who put it in) and the egr valve was inspected and seems to be ok. Solenoid?

This happens every year when it gets really cold.

I checked shopkey, there is a tsb about hard starts in winter. It says to use full-volume name-brand fuel whatever that means.

some time within the week i will follow the flowchart shopkey has outlined to diagnose the tdc sensor.

could the tdc sensor cause both codes to pop up?
someone told me if the timing is off this could happen?

Thanks.

poorman212

"when its really cold out, the check engine light in my girlfriends car comes on and is hard to start"

First, does the cel come on for @ 2 sec and go off-turn the car to the II pos and be sure....yes flame me folks but I'm going for main relay issues....

I'll also assume you reset the ECU to be sure the codes come back, or don't??

craigers

the cel comes on and stays on. she drives 45 min. to work and its on the whole way, she then has to go to the bank to make deposits and says her car is harder to start when its warm.

Yes, i have d/c'd the battery for 5 minutes, comes back on the 1st time you try to start it.

I almost wonder if it isn't something electrical, her rear defroster don't work either, light turns on but no power at the window. Please elaborate on "main relay".

(sorry for my poor grammar in the 1st post.)

Thanks.

gandalf

The main relay takes care of alot of things, fuel, spark...I had a bad problem with mine in hot weather(the soldering on the internal circuit board was faulty, like the XBOX problem) I got a new one at O'reilly's for $30.00. it's under the dash to the left of the steering column behind the cruise control module...it's not hard to get to, just takes a little time. I uploaded a pic that might help( a very generous gift of a member here)

Good Luck,
Gandalf

craigers

hmm, after some research i think this may be part of the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong but I read that the car wont always turn off when you take the key out? She has this problem intermittently. she has to put the key back in and cycle it again. she has a new ignition switch, i thought it was from her remote starter malfunctioning.

I'll try swapping that tomorrow and post back.
Thanks for the advice thus far and the pic. (i know a lot of forums members elsewhere are not so nice, So i really do appreciate your time)

poorman212

I hate replacing parts on a guess.....you do have a TDC code so that could be the issue. That is one reason I asked if the codes are recent or left over from sometime else.

The main relay is a GUESS, I like to put that out there-I don't like guessing.

Then next, I know you counted but are you sure it was 8 short blinks and not 6 short blinks....ECT, hard start when cold???

craigers

new symptom, Car was sputtering randomly. both cold and warm.

So, could this "new" distributor be faulty? could moisture play a roll? or is this a symptom of the relay?

she has a new cap, rotor, plugs, and wires as of fall.

the temp here has been in the single digits, negatives with wind chill.

its a hard start no matter if the car is at operating temp or cold.


I did not get the main relay, they are out of stock for a week.

I can post a video of the blinks/hard start in the a.m. (or if i feel ambitious enough to go out and freeze)

Thanks.

craigers

here is the vid of the cel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV255SwYuQY

ill try to get a vid of the hard start in the morning.
(took vid on phone and phone was dead so i couldn't get all of what i wanted.)

gandalf

Replacing the Main Relay in mine was a great decision...hot weather, cold weather...I have no more problems with it starting(even when the car was warm). It starts the 1st lick every time.

Also, I have been doing research into Gas .vs. mileage...and in my 92 accord...I have found this.
I've used each kind of gas for 2 weeks, same driving habits, same route, and always the speed limit (No interstate) same number of gallons
Shell...The Poorest @18 mpg
Kwik sack @19.2
BP @ 22
Exxon @24.4
after each time with Exxon, I found that it took less to bring it to the same level than the time before...I've told friends and family about this and they have noticed a noticeable difference in fuel economy, and the Exxon station down the street is normally 5 cents cheaper than the ones noted above...Citgo was NOT on the list because I WILL NOT contribute to Hugo Chavez of Venezuela.

Good Luck,
G

craigers

well at 20 bucks its not a bank buster to replace the relay so i'll just go ahead and try that.

if that dont work, ill follow the flowchart to diagnose the tdc sensor and probably be off to the junk yard to pull a tdc sensor out of an old distributor rather than drop 150 on a new distributor.

I wont get to this till Saturday so if there are any other tips or suggestions, they would be appreciated.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Craig

brakedrum

As best I recall, the way the TDC sensor is attached to the distributor makes it hard to remove it. You can get the magnet out by taking out the screws, but the wiring that attaches it would require some complicated splicing. A distributor has a lot of juice going through it. Not a good place to have any spliced wires. If you're going to try it, the white wire goes to the CYL #1 sensor, so the other sensor (TDC sensor) is your target. A failing TDC sensor will cause hard starting. Your engine diagnostics has already done the diagnosing, 8 blinks. You can get a remanufactured distributor pretty cheap. I got 3 years out of a cheapy I got off ebay in 2007 (about $90). The TDC sensor finally failed in it this past Summer. This time I put in a slightly better Cardone dist. We'll see how it holds up.

note: The Main Relay is not involved in ignition spark. Its job is to tell the fuel pump to start pumping fuel from the tank to prime the system so there's gas to burn once spark hits the combustion chambers. If you drop in a new one, you might want to hang onto your old one as a backup. My Accord has the still has the original main relay.

brakedrum

I switched back to Exxon from Shell recently, too. So far so good. Still 10% moonshine, though. But they all are.

poorman212

And these codes come back after being cleared? And please don't take my question the wrong way.

Now that the issue is happening while it is cold AND warm...I'm going back to the TDC (redbull had you there to begin with, SORRY)-shouldn't have even brought up the main relay but I did state I was reaching...and hate to do that.

If the dist is new, is it still under warranty?

craigers

i have yet to buy the relay but we found out her distributor has a lifetime warranty, so she picked up a free one today. I'll be putting that in - in the A.M.

Yes, i have d/c'd the battery and pulled the ecu fuse many times now. the last time it stayed off for a half hour then came on. (the temp also warmed up to the 20s on that day. now its back to a whole 7*)

where i live we have no emissions testing, so 10% blend is not required but "recommended" the kwik trip down the block offers 10% in the low grade but the 2 higher grades are ethanol free or if i take a 15 min. drive south there is a mobile station and a bp that offer all 3 grades ethanol free gas. its also significantly less, 20-30 cents at times. (i need that for my boat)

Thanks,
-Craig

poorman212

Dang, I put off replacing sway bar bushing on the 89 LXi today because it is only like 35 outside....yea I know, I don't take cold well.

Please let us know how it works out...

redbull-1

I kind of doubt there is a main relay problem here.

craigers

Got the distro in and timed. She fires right up now and both codes are gone... for now.

poorman212

Craigers- good to hear....

Redbull-1- yes you are correct, I realized that in my post (#16)...some of us are just slow, even tho in one of my other posts I did say to go with the codes and not a guess.

andyz

Coil on plug, coil on plug. Distributorless ignition distributorless igniton.

Shall I rant more? I hate honda distributors.