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Old 09-02-2010, 08:58 AM   #1
rnacion
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Default Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

Hey everyone, I am about to start one of my first paint projects with actual automotive grade paint. I will be spraying with an hvlp gun, and have done jobs with non-automotive paints such as rustoleum before. The specific paint I will be using is from the Dupont Imron Elite line. I happen to have some black single stage paint, and some clear coat sitting around that I am planning on using. I will be painting a set of rims for my winter beater, and have already looked into compatability of these two products and have ensured that the clear coat is safe to use over the single stage paint.

What I am looking for is a genereal guideline as to how to apply the paint. I understand the physical application, but am looking more for application times. Such as:

After applying a primer how long should I wait before applying my single stage?
Any tips on spraying a single stage?
How many coats are required, and how long to wait between each coat?
When to apply clear, application tips, time between coats, and how many?

Will I need to sand in between any of these? Also if orange peel does appear at any stage of spraying how should I go about fixing it? Wetsand that coat or is that all done after the clear coat?

I know that I am asking a lot and I am looking for constructive replies. All input is appreciated, and please if keep any negative comments out. I have searched, but have not come up with anything specific to this paint system.

Thanks,
Ryan.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

imron, yikes!! lol. I painted commercial trucks for 4 1/2 years and thats all i used was imron. Its ok when everything goes good but when it goes bad its bad. It is tough paint however so it will be good for wheels. If you dont have accelerator for the paint you might wanna get some. Imron can take up to a day to dry, it dries so slow so one painter can paint a truck without getting dry spots. You will only need one coat, thats all you do with imron. It will dry with orange peel but may not be noticeable on wheels. If you spray imron on a panel smooth like automotive it WILL run. If you are clearing over it make sure you wait atleast an hour or 2 to clear after youve put imron on. If not the clear will solvent pop like a bitch, then you get to start all over. One last thing, Imron fisheyes if you look at it the wrong way. So make sure you clean the wheels very good with wax n grease remover and make sure there are no silicone based products anywhere near it like tire shine.
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

Thanks for the reply. It's nice to hear from someone who has a lot of experience with this product line. I've gotten my hands on some accelerator as well which I did not mention in my first post, so I've got that covered.

I have just laid down the primer. I was wondering is it completely neccessary to sand down the primer before laying down the single stage?

When applying the clear you mention to wait at least 1-2 hours. Is this a time frame taking the accelerator into consideration? Is it safer to wait longer than this, or is there a maximum time I can wait as well?

Also, I found some Master Tint 1024 Galaxy Blue EFX powdered pearl. It says that it is compatible with Imron base, but would this mean that it is compatible with their single stage line? Someone suggested that I add it to the clear does this make sense? I may not decide to add it to these wheels, but this is more of a general question.

Thanks.
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

glad i could help, the stuff can be a pain sometimes so just wanted to try and make it goes as easy as possible for ya. The 1-2 hours is with accelerator. The way i always judged when i would clear it is when it would print if i touched but it still wasnt quite dry. Then i would clear it. The tint can go in the paint or the clear. It will show up a lot more if you put it in the clear but dont run the clear bc it will show up really bad when the pearls run. If the primer was laid down smooth, id skuff it with a red scuff pad or you can wetsand with 400 grit sand paper. Scuffing is easier though.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

definitely have to prep your primer, or your just gonna have a weak surface and your paint will start to lift later on. We clear over single stage all the time, like getzy said, give it plenty of time to let it solvent release, or you sure as hell will get solvent pop and itll look like dook and youll need to start over. If youve never sprayed single stage, your in for some fun ha. Dont run it or you have to do it again,but considering they are rims, lay them flat on the ground and forget about it. Even if it runs itll run towards the back of the rim and probably wont be noticeable. when it comes to single stage you need to keep it wet, dont want dry spots, just ease off on your material so you dont go gobbing it on there. since they are rims theyll be pretty easy. and definitely throw your blue effect in the clear since you wont be using a mid coat. itll definitely be more pronounced in the clear. your wait times are your flash times, each material will have a certain flash time before applying the next coat if you are at a certain temperature. Like getzy mentioned you usually only need 1 good coat of single stage to get full coverage. just give it plenty of time to release before you clear.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

why are you clearing over single stage? what's the point? the entire idea of single stage paint is that you get a base/clear looking result with only one step. it looks the same as base/clear, it's just not the same overall quality.

if you clear over freshly sprayed single stage paint, expect severe solvent pop and most likely severe dye-back. with certain clear over certain other materials (unknown until you try and fail), you could even have an instant rejection of the clear altogether, i.e. severe fisheyes to the point where it looks like you cleared over a freshly waxed car. your wheels will be ruined. if you want a good result, either use the single stage only or throw the single stage in the garbage and buy the proper basecoat and clear over that. that's doing it the right way.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC2.2_GSR View Post
why are you clearing over single stage? what's the point? the entire idea of single stage paint is that you get a base/clear looking result with only one step. it looks the same as base/clear, it's just not the same overall quality.

if you clear over freshly sprayed single stage paint, expect severe solvent pop and most likely severe dye-back. with certain clear over certain other materials (unknown until you try and fail), you could even have an instant rejection of the clear altogether, i.e. severe fisheyes to the point where it looks like you cleared over a freshly waxed car. your wheels will be ruined. if you want a good result, either use the single stage only or throw the single stage in the garbage and buy the proper basecoat and clear over that. that's doing it the right way.

we clear over single stage when the customer only has a certain amount of money and cant pay for the normal materials we use.. Well use a baseline single stage paint, which they are informed of and then we spray good quality clear over it to protect the finish. Cause we know that single stage loves to fade out and yellow a whole lot quicker than a good base/clear even when well taken care of. We add the clear to help make the customer happy, to protect the color and the customer can get a good finish that will last forever while saving a little money since its not quite the price of a good base clear. We only do it with solid colors cause we dont use junk basecoat cause of matching problems later down the road. With solid single stages, black,red. Its more likely to match if any panels need to be painted later on from what weve had to deal with. we use dupont so when we use nason single stage, well put cromaclear on top. when we use cromapremier single stage well use cromapremier clear even though its not really needed cause the cromapremier single stage is awesome. we stick with the same product manufacturer, everything dupont. But we do it anyway for piece of mind and have done it many times with great results. we havent had a problem with dye back or fisheyeing or delamination as long as the single stage has plenty of time to flash.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

So I sprayed the single stage last night. I did not end up spraying the clear because of some dust that ended up getting onto the wheels. I expected this to happen since I was in my garage and not a booth. What I am wondering now is if it is too late to clear over the wheels. I would preferably like to remove as much of the imperfections before doing so, because I would also like to see how it looks with the pearl over the black.

If I were to still clear these wheels what would be the best way of doing so?
And as for removing the dust will wetsanding suffice?

Also where can I find mixing instructions for the pearl. It is DuPont MasterTint 1024S™ - Galaxy Blue EFX.


Thanks for all the help and input so far.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

its too late to add clear, your going to have to reprep it or your clear will just delaminate and probably fisheye since it has no surface to bite into. since your going to try and sand out some of the stuff, your going to have a hard time. Sanding single stage is always a very delicate thing to do and youll probably end up ruining it. but hell, go for it.you can always do it again.

How are you wanting to spray your pearl ? in a real 3 stage, or in the clear ?

To do it as an actual 3 stage,just make a clear base. Youll need to get some Basecoat/binder/reducer, and add however much pearl you want since your not going for anything precise to match a vehicle.

if you want to just put it in the clear, just toss it in the clear and mix it well. I would suggest laying a final coat of straight clear,no pearl. just incase you have any texture to it the straight clear will help to level it out.
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Old 09-06-2010, 02:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Clear Coat Over Sing Stage (Dupont Imron Elite)

Thanks again for all the help.

My dad ended up liking the wheels the way that they were, so I am trading him wheels for out winter vehicles. I am going to paint the set that he is giving me, in an attempt to correct any mistakes I have made on the first step. All this info definitely helped me out a ton.
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