egycasper16

hi
i have b16a with s2 pro1 cams and cam fixture kit from xenocron.
today i started degreeing with locking the vtec lobe so the intake is ok its 0* on the gear at 99 ATDC like skunk said.
the exhaust that i have the problem ..while i am rotating the degree wheel to (center line)105 BTDC i noticed that when i reach the peaklift at the dial indicator i look at the degree wheel its 115 BTDC and when i stop at 105* i start to rotate from the ex gear the room isnt enough to reach peak lift.
i mean i rotate and stop to 105* BTDC so i passed the peakleft at the dial indicator. then i star to rotate the cam at the clock wise (retard) and the room of the gear isn't enough to reach the peakleft at the dial indicator and its at the (-)direction and skunk said it should be at the (+) direction advance the cam to +3 or+4 not retard the cam .
by the way my gears is lined up at TDC from the first.
and i count the 2 gears its 34 teeth.
need help.

Natural Aspirations

Again, your a tooth off somewhere

EDIT: Set your gears to IN +1 and EX +4 and if your not close your obviously a tooth off.

egycasper16

it doesn't matter ..the engine is broke down the day before yesterday.
but i am waiting for stroker kit for b20b and i'll put the same head setup isa.

egycasper16

hi
now i have finished building my b20vtec full forged..
need help about,
degreeing cams..mine s2 pro1
the intake cam is fine ..opening 24° BTDC and peaklift at 99° ATDC and closing at 50° ABDC. the gear is +2°.
these setting is in the sheet of s2.and i work at 1mm as the s2 sheet.
the exhoust cam is weird..opening is ok at 56° BBDC and closing is ok at 17° ATDC but the peak lift is not ok its at 117° BTDC not in 105° BTDC as the sheet said and the gear is -2°. but i know that it should be +4° or+5°.
but how the opening and closing is typical like the s2 sheet and the peak lift is not and how the gear is -2°.
by the way my gears is lined up at TDC from the first.
and i count the 2 gears its 34 teeth.
can you help in that

BigBlock22

like metioned before you could be off a tooth. if you are definitely sure the ex cam gear setting was correct to begin with i would go back and check the valve lash. also, i thought i remember someone saying the peak lift that skunk2 advertises is not always 100% accurate, you might want to look into that

CrimsonRX

Looks like my h-tech inbox was full at whopping 3 messages lol!

Check out my post "valve to valve clearance skunk 2 pro 2 cams."

I'll respond to your post later when I have a bit more time.

CrimsonRX

Some questions and some dumb ones:

Please check Valve to Valve Clearances first.

1) What is your valve to valve cam separation?

2) What is the "no go" region for valve to valve separation?

3) If you set the peak lift to what skunk says at 105 BTDC what is the opening and closing degs when dial indicator is at .040" off the retainer? For the Pro2's opening, peak, closing was slightly off skunks spec sheet according to my records.

4) I assume you're taking the average peak lift number? What are the deg numbers when the dial stops and starts moving at peak lift?

5) Did you get the cams directly from skunk?

egycasper16

what i see is @-2 on the ex gear the opening is ok,closing is ok @1m and peaklift @115*(stops opening 117*and start closing 113*).
i will try to rotate the ex gear again to get back near the peaklift(105*) but that will change the opening and closing .

CrimsonRX

Try and change peak lift @(105*) let me know what the opening and closing numbers are. Please make sure your valve to valve clearance is enough.

Also what cam pulleys are you using?

egycasper16

the cam gear is skunk2 pro titanum .
Now what i got for the ex cam is,
Open 47 bbdc --------------- SKUNK2 sheet is Open 56 bbdc
peak 105 btdc -------------------------------------peak 105 btdc
Close 28 atdc ------------------------------------ Close 17 atdc
254/11.1@1m and the gear set at (-6)
Intake,
Open 27 btdc ---------------- SKUNK2 sheet is Open 24 btdc
Peak 98 atdc ------------------------------------- Peak 98 atdc
Close 52 abdc ------------------------------------ Close 50 abdc
259/12.30@1m and the gear set at (+4)
About the exhaust cam if i adjest the gear to -2 the opening and closing correct but peaklift is incorrect.
And if i addjest it to -6 the peaklift is correct but opening and closing a bit incorect.
And the overlap starts @45 btdc and ends @47 atdc
So what do you think

egycasper16

any help

egycasper16

any help

egycasper16

any help

CrimsonRX

Looks like the grind on the exhaust is out of tolerance, might want to call skunk explain what numbers your getting and see if they offer to exchange the exhaust cam.

When I was setting up my motor I talked to them on the phone about the numbers since mine were off a little (not as much as your exhaust cam) see my numbers below and Skunk said to just set the cam to the peak lift. When you go to the dyno they will adjust the cams then, so all this info is needed.

If it were me I would contact skunk and see what they say. Seems to me you are doing everything right and the cam is just ground wrong. Link to Skunks help desk http://www.skunk2.com/techSupport.php

Maybe someone else would be kind enough to post their numbers for the Skunk2 Pro1's?

These are my stats for the skunk2 pro 2's:

Now what i got for the ex cam is,
Open 63 bbdc --------------- SKUNK2 sheet is Open 58 bbdc
peak 105 btdc -------------------------------------peak 105 btdc
Close 30 atdc ------------------------------------ Close 25 atdc
the cam gear set at (+6)
Intake,
Open 33 btdc ---------------- SKUNK2 sheet is Open 31 btdc
Peak 99 atdc ------------------------------------- Peak 99 atdc
Close 50 abdc ------------------------------------ Close 46 abdc
the cam gear set at (+3)

egycasper16

i took of the cams out of the engine...and this is what i figured out..
i adjest the gears to 0* then lined up the cams together...the loop to the top.




then looked at the gears ...this is what i found.. at the exhaust gear a tooth off..to the advanced direction.



so i measured that tooth ..about 9mm.



then applied that measure to the degree at the exhaust gear and start from -6 ..it goes to +6



it makes +6
so that tooth makes my numbers wrong from the first ..
thats why my exhaust degreeing was (-6) but with retarding that tooth it makes it (+6) as i mesured in the pictures.
so intake is +4
and exhaust is +6 is fine
but my problem is at -6 the peaklift is ok but opening and closing a bit wrong
Open 47 bbdc --------------- SKUNK2 sheet is Open 56 bbdc
peak 105 btdc -------------------------------------peak 105 btdc
Close 28 atdc ------------------------------------ Close 17 atdc
254/11.1@1m and the gear set at (-6)
why my numbers high?because my setup is b20vtec 11.1:1 cr so when the stroker changed form b16 or b18 to b20 so that a point ..plus the b16a head had been cleaned surface .that all makes the numbers advanced in from 0/+1 to +4 and ex from +3/+4 to +6 .
so what do you think

CrimsonRX

I agree.

What did skunk say about the closing # on the ex cam?

egycasper16

skunk said that i get too hung up on the opening and closing..and the said if the intake +4 then the exhaust should be +7 there would be 3° separation between the camshafts which is nearly what they would expect.

my opinion:
intake (+4)
exhaust -5 means (+7) means open 50° peaklift 107.5° closing 25°
or -4 means (+8) means open 52° peaklift 110° closing 22.5°
stock open 56° peaklift 105° closing 17°
both means separation 3° or 4°

CrimsonRX

Wow it would be really interesting to see the manufacturing bell curve on skunk's cams. Some people might get really lucky and get a cam perfectly tuned to their setup.

Frankacura

I dont have lot of time now. but i also got some problemes as this... i will come back later but..
Dont forget... in your valve lash. there is some degre and lift lost... tha cam lobe is raising but at the begining its only taking the gap betwene the 2. so look when the valve start to open end when it close and youll see you dont get all the cam degree there. Dont take .05 as mesurement but .045 you will eeliminate almost all the gap play.
in order its supose to be donne at the cam... not at the valve... so at the cam you see avery lift and X by 1.55
Or get your valve adj 0 for the dialing...

Frankacura

If the head is shaved by more that .010 your cams wont be streight up. as the bloc essembly get shorter, you pull the belt down on bangder side. so retarding each cam by 1degre each .010 shaved
Have them install EX. -4 and IN. +3 you wont be far on stock deck height and stock head.
Broken your head to degree them in. and at the dyno you will reajust them...
And its true that you have to know when the exhaust valve will hit pistons and when the 2 valve ( intake, exhaust) will totch them together on over lapp. to know where you cant go test...

egycasper16

i think intake is +4 is good because its at beaklift and opening,closing fine..so no need to retard that cam.
Exhaust ..i will try first and tune at -4 means +8.then try -5--->+7 and -3--->9
Then i will take the best performance .
What do you think guys.

egycasper16

any idea

Natural Aspirations

Where are you located?

Pull off the cam gears and make sure you have a key installed in both gears, silly things like this happen and cause the biggest head aches.

Pic's of cams installed with gears aligned and crank at TDC position. Chances are its an alignment issue somewhere, but defects do happen and I am more than sure skunk would be willing to help out if it falls on them.

BigBlock22

^^ this guy

egycasper16

i will not use these cams...i tired of it
What should i use for my set up
B20vtec 11.1:1 full eagle stroker kit.