VitalBodies

Brake mystery of three lifetimes:

1986 Honda Civic Wagovan 2WD - driver side rear brake drum binding only when the lug nuts are on...

My mechanics came over and thought the car needed new brakes as there was some kind of metal to metal sound in the back driver side.

So they proceeded to replace the brake shoes and springs and such from the parts kit (on both sides) that they ordered.
No luck, there was still grinding and now a fierce binding. With both wheels off the ground you could spin the passenger wheel by hand with ease. You could not even hardly budge the driver side.

They thought the backing plate might be bent and causing the binding.
You could see where someone had pried on it.
They replaced the backing plate with a factory new one that I ordered.
No luck, there was still grinding and binding. With both wheels off the ground you could spin the passenger wheel by hand with ease. You could not hardly even budge the driver side.

The hubs and bearing on both sides had been done six months earlier and spun fine - and still do.

Perhaps the drum is warped?
They replaced the drum with a new one.
No luck, there was still grinding and binding. With both wheels off the ground you could spin the passenger wheel by hand with ease. You could not hardly even budge the driver side.

Wow, what could it be?
We swapped the drum from the passenger side with the one from the driver side just as a test.
No luck.
We swapped them back to their original sides.

We swapped the bearing from the passenger side with the one from the driver side just as a test.
No luck.
We swapped them back to their original sides.

We swapped the wheel and tire from the passenger side with the one from the driver side just as a test.
No luck.
We swapped them back to their original sides.

We swapped the lug nuts from the passenger side with the one from the driver side just as a test.
No luck.
We swapped them back to their original sides.

Was the auto-adjuster backed all the way off?
Yes, we each checked it three times.

The emergency brake adjusted correctly?
Adjusted it to the point where there was zero tension (no braking) and made no difference. Then adjusted to what the factory Honda Wagovan book suggested.

The emergency brake cable kinked, clogged or binding?
No it moves quite freely on both sides.

Are the parts on in the correct order?
Matched them up and checked 10 times. They match the factory diagram in the factory Honda Wagovan manual.

Is the spindle bent?
Put a factory new spindle on thinking that had to be the last thing it could be.
There was a lot of toe in before the new spindle and so the logic was there to buy the part.
No luck.

Super short test drive?
Drum gets really hot as expected - binding is unchanged.

Bleed the brakes?
Yes, no change.

Replace the large nut on the spindle a torque it down tight?
New nut, I could stand on the ratchet handle, no luck...

If all the parts are on except the drum, wheel/tire and lug nuts...
And then you put the drum on...
And then you put the wheel on...
There is no binding.

If you tighten the lug nuts even finger tight (which is not all that tight) it binds so hard you can barely turn the wheel with great effort?
NOTE: Finger tight is barely barely - I mean fingers to lug nuts no tools.

The mechanic has been fixing cars all his life and has never seen anything like this.
His son that works with him has never seen anything like this either - not even in his junk yard days.
I have worked on cars all my life and have not see anything like this?

As a test I put the lug nuts on with no wheel at all, same thing - totally binds.

What what parts are new? brake shoes (springs and such), spindle, hub, bearings, backing plate, drum, spindle nut.

Any ideas?

Parts Diagrams (HondaPartsNow.com):
Brake Drum Hub Etc (note the right and left sides are different): http://www.hondapartsnow.com/diagram...rum-458525.png
Axle Beam: http://www.hondapartsnow.com/diagram...eam-458538.png
Brake Shoes: http://www.hondapartsnow.com/diagram...hoe-458526.png

Hondatherdm

The only thing i can think of is backing plate is warped or drum, yes i know its new but once in a while you get those where they're new but warp. Maybe the spindle where lug studs go is in too far for some reason, so it would leave marks on the backing plate, is there marks? Check brake pedal free play and height adjustment

VitalBodies

Thank you so much for taking the time to write.

I am hoping we ruled out the drum as I have three that all work fine on the "other side" and the same three all bind on the problem side.

The backing plate - well - I could swap that and see maybe, if they are not side specific.
Wow, that is like doing two jobs (both sides) and we are already on job number 19 I think.

But still, it could be that backing plate.

I read today that one can (in theory) correct or change the "toe in" with two washers (in front) between the spindle and axle beam - I wonder if that would help any also?

My personal logic tells me that this should not help the binding but would make a difference on tire wear and such. Not really sure though?

The trailing arm is more likely to be warped than the backing plate but I would not be the first person in the world to have to send back new parts that had odd issues. That arm could be warping the backing plate also I would imagine.

What are your thoughts on brake pedal free play and height adjustment?
How could that matter or not matter?

I was hoping that was ruled out as for quite some time the brake line was not even hooked up. The E brake has always been hooked up but i did back it off fully within the console. Is that enough though?

I am open to all ideas! Yet, having done this job so MANY times I will challenge the logic a bit a first (this brake job getting to be like, well, work) - I will NOT challenge the person suggesting the idea, but the idea itself. Brain storming is appreciated and YES I NEED HELP. And of course my ideas are up for being challenged also.

The blog got updated with some new info and some other comments and suggestions also. The problem is not resolved yet, and I am pondering/planning my best strategy for the next attempt. All ideas welcome...

Hondatherdm

Did you try getting new assy. for that side?

perseverance

how about some pics? possibly even a video, that may help us out a lot. it's definitely possible that something was over looked that's really obvious.