kiss_my_ss

Ok first off this is not a honda build nor do i own a honda. but i read and am a member of lots of forums to learn and see what other platforms are doing.

I have a 2008 hhr ss with a 2.0L directed injected, factory turbocharged, ecotec engine. I am upgrading the turbo and am looking to make 400-450whp on a dd tune on 93 and 500-525whp on an e85 race tune. A little info about the platform.....stock redline is 6300, i rev to 6850 on stock valvetrain (don't plan on upgrading valvetrain till next year). guys have run smaller quick spooling setups and either bust 3rd gear or bust a ringland. (don't plan on upgrading the internals till next year either). so i want something that doesn't spool so early like a 2871 or efr6758 those have been tried and while will generally meet my 400whp goal, the instaspool characteristics make things go boom....ive seen it dozens of times.

now for fueling......i can make my dd 400whp goal on the stock direct injection system simply by upping the commanded rail pressure to the max pressure of 2600psi from 2200. the race goal of 500+ on e85 will require more fuel. we have no injector options or upgraded high pressure fuel pump options. i will be running a custom 5th injector setup utilizing a bosch 640cc injector centered perfectly above the throttle body opening, controlled with a devils own dvc30 progressive controller.

I will be using a t3 log mani, tial 38mm wg, custom 3"dp, 3" straigh pipe side exit, all the other turbo bolt on upgrades (piping, ic, intake, bov, etc) tuned with HPtuners.

i have been talking with charles with pure turbos and he suggested their garrett billet 60trim which is a billet 58mm comp wheel with a 57mm stg3 turbine wheel.

recap:
stock block
stock valvetrain, rev to 6850
full spool by 4000-4200 MAX

What is my best option?????

OneBadTurboCRV

First off let us get a few things straight, busting a ringland has NOTHING to do with when a turbo spools. That is more along the lines of the tune. It sounds like you are on your way to hell in a hand basket with your excessive over factory setups. You will want something closer to 50-60lbs per min as far as turbo is concerned. As far as which turbo choice, well you never gave a budget.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

GTX3071 and GT3076 are in that neighborhood.

a1320honda

GT3076R

kiss_my_ss

im not sure what you mean here.

the rapid spool times cause unseating of the stock rings. and yes the tune has a LOT to do with the ringlands breaking. our stock pistons are cast while the rods and crank are forged. they are they weak link of the block. the rods hold to 550 all day, approach 600 and they will eventually go. Overall they stock engine is extremely stout.

yes i am thinking closer to 60lbs/min. budget wise, i would like to spend less than 800 but i am open to suggestions. i don't see the need for a ball bearing turbo, so that should keep the price down significantly.

kiss_my_ss

my original plans last year were a fully built engine and a gtx3076. those plans got scrapped due to several thousand dollars in unexpected expenses. from what i have been told the gtx would be closer to 3500. which is a little sooner than i would like. if anything i would like to not grenade my trans. I think almost every single big(ger) turbo guys on my platform (cobalt ss, hhr ss) that make 400ish hp on a turbo that spools sub 4k has busted 3rd gear. the high initial tq load is too much for it to handle

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I don’t agree with this assertion at all. Ring gap, ring design, and cylinder pressure affects this. Not spool. The rapid acceleration of cylinder pressure (spool) wouldn't be worse than peak pressure (MBT).


Again, I don't think building a laggy turbo system is going to save your pistons. If cast pistons are the weak link in your engine then why not build it up with forged pistons?

Gunmetal_B20_Hatch

iTrader: (9)

Precision 6262 is a great choice too. Billet wheel and ball bearing available also.

kiss_my_ss

meh...i hope it will help it survive for a while. but a laggy(er) system will save the transmission. and it will help with traction. i can't believe im getting lag questions from honda guys (joking/lol)

kiss_my_ss

have a friend with the same platform as mine with a pte dbb5857 and he hits 25psi at 4400. i think he needs to play with his cam tables a bit more tho. i know of one guy who has a jb6262 but it's not installed yet. he is upgrading from a jb5857. where does a 6262 spool on a 2.0 for you honda guys???

Gunmetal_B20_Hatch

iTrader: (9)

All I can say about Precision is to stay away from their journal bearing stuff. I see MANY more failures out of their JB stuff than ball bearing. Their ball bearing **** is SOLID. Ive got their billet and ball bearing 6262 on my 2.0L and it hits boost HARD and FAST.

kiss_my_ss

what rpm?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

He doesnt want it to hit hard or fast!

The best way to control spool is to actually control it via a boost controller not a larger turbo. Run a smaller wg spring than your intended boost target then you can use the EBC to increase boost above the wg spring. Then you can also shape the curve so it doesnt ramp up so fast. You can also prop it up on the back end to fight boost taper.

Gunmetal_B20_Hatch

iTrader: (9)

I honestly cant say... motor is getting rebuilt for better part of a year now. I would say around 4200-4500 on a fully built non-VTEC 2.0l B-series

kiss_my_ss

that's kinda stupid to say....i just don't want it to spool super early. dont really know what's so hard to understand. i will be using a dual stage mbc so it will come on hard and fast anyway. and have 2 stages for either a reduction in 1st and 2nd or a for a little extra kick on the street....depending on how i set it up.

that's what's done in the tuning software on the stock setup. boost by gear for traction essentially. at first it was actually so i didn't burn up the stock clutch but it's been replaced since. i don't know if i can still use ecm boost control on an external wastegate. never even thought about it.

there are only a small handfull of turbos that are gonna produce 500whp and spool sub 4k anyway so the whole spool thing is really a point not worth arguing. im not spending 1500-2000 on a turbo anyway.

kiss_my_ss

shurerar......was that to me or someone else?

OneBadTurboCRV

I am not understanding why you came on here if "you know it all"? If you can create an account on here surely you can search and click on a few websites to understand what turbo you need. There calculations to be easily done to get the information you need. None of us really care to learn the ins and outs of your platform (although many of us are VERY proficient outside of Hondas). Cast pistons can handle quite a bit depending on the forging and design.

There is a guy on here with the user name of "TheShodan", he sells a turbo called the "The Silver Surfer". This will be a touch over 60lbs per min and be in the cheap price range you are looking for. Other than that, have fun as if looks like you had your mind set before coming in here.

kiss_my_ss

^^and you are the typical honda guy. i never said i know it all. and i have only had one person suggest a turbo which is what i fukiing asked for. thanks brah

OneBadTurboCRV

My dear child, i am probably 3 times your age and been working on Chevys and Fords for close to 5 decades. I am far from the "typical Honda guy". Anyone here will vouch that I am a "grumpy old man" without a doubt. There is a tight knit group in this Forced Induction forum and I am not really in it. So again, you should just shut your mouth and take the handouts you are giving and stop trying to inject your nonsense here. Options were given without any real details to go off of, you rejected them, and so here se are.

The problem is if you understand so much, you must know about comoressor maps. There are plenty to comoare to get you in the ball park of where you need to be. You do the math and plot out the charts and pick a proper turbo for your setup and goals. What works fine on a Honda is pure crap on another car. You just can not best how these heads flow. I know more than you think about what you are doing. How else would I know the flow rate needed for your goals? You never posted squat for the uniformed to help you. Think before you speak and shutup and listen and you might actually learn something.

kiss_my_ss

without acting like a bunch of ******* 2yr olds....what details do you need to go off of that i did not provide? i never said that i know everything. and i never rejected any ideas that were given, i may have commented on something but never rejected anything. and you really haven't tried to help in any way, rather just attacking being an *** for whatever reason. on a side note there are sentenses that you have posted that make absolutely no sense....don't know if you are on a phone posting or what but i have no clue what you are trying to say in them.

now if you have something constructive or some advice i am open to hear it if we can both be adults here.

4genaccordfreak

Buddy, you are contradicting yourself in several key areas of your request for a turbo selection. You want a turbo with abit of lag (mid-frame size) on a 2.0L block, but want full spool at 4000rpm with a redline of only 6850?

You've seen "time and time again" setups with smaller turbochargers break piston ringlands and 3rd gears in transmissions?

But yet you want a mid-frame turbocharger that is laggy, but flows much more volume?

I still don't understand your logic here, not sure you realize how inefficient this type of setup would be.

A laggy(ish) setup like this will not be even close to it's efficiency range before you are about to shift up to the next gear with a low redline like that.

You have to make a compromise no matter what.

Change around/lower your power goal or build your engine to handle higher power/torque, higher RPM operation and boost pressure.

Aside from that, your budget for a turbo is out to lunch, unless you plan on purchasing something used. $800 will barely get you a decent Garrett 57-60trim T3/T04e, which will NOT get your to 500whp on an ecotec engine.

Make up your mind... coming on here with your non-honda setup and then calling people "typical honda guys" blah blah blah isn't going to get you an answer any time soon.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Im not sure what spooling HARD AND FAST you disagree with but thats exactly what you claimed breaks piston rings and transmissions in your car. Sudden surge in boost (FAST) will create a sudden surge in torque (HARD). I dont get the disconnect.

This is only the tip of the iceberg of what I meant. Im not going to explain it again but its a perfect way to accomplish a soft manageable spool.

At this point every 55-70lb/min turbo on the market has been suggested... What more are you looking for?

N3va3vaSatisfi3d is far from a typical Honda owner. Hes our resident grumpy old man who Im not even sure owns a Honda.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Yes yes, we all know your old as dirt, you made this painfully evident by your lame attempt to use "your momma' insults on me in calidads thread, and your complete inability to use a keyboard properly in this thread. Why do you insist on using that as a credible argument for your expertise in every thread? You can be old and still be a moron.

OneBadTurboCRV

The reason why is because I HAVE been there and done that. Something you will only understand with TIME. Back when I was growing up and old persons advice was to be taken almost like scripture. Now these days I want to beat the hell out of every punk kid I see. While I do agree you can be old and stupid, the point is most will have learned over the years and have more experience which will aid in overshadowing stupidity. Also, yes, my phone isn't the best and I do have trouble reading what exactly is on the screen at times. Most of the reason for my "one liners" people complain about. You can ask the people that I have helped through PMs just how much I know. I would name them, but out of respect I won't; although they could vouch for my vast knowledge. It must stink feeling so inferior, I am sure you would be happy to make it to my age in the future, mark my words.

phaphon

buy my garret 60-1 turbo. pm me if interested