Hybrid-Fusion

My brother has a 97 Civic DX. Completely stock. I think it only has 75K or something like that. Anyways, the motor started revving a bit higher than normal and the check engine light came on. The code that appeared was P1298. It's the ELD code. The performance deteriorated - throttle response would kill the engine and sometimes it won't even start. The car is no longer drivable. I went through the Honda diagnostic procedure to determine if it's the ELD or not. According to the trouble shooting flow chart it ends with the replacement of the ELD. I replaced the box with a 00 Civic fuse box. After clearing the codes and restarting the car I have the same code.

I have heard that the wiring harnesses will corrode and begin to short out. I pulled the harness out from under the intake manifold, but nothing stands out. I doubt the shielding would melt, but I don't want to split the plastic shielding.

Anyone else concurred this problem?

Former User

Is fuse 15 blown? If so, read this TSB.

trrbl1bmx

Yes, we used to do these all the time at work, they have died down since then. This should be your fix!

Hybrid-Fusion

That fuse is fine. The car charges at 14.5V. All the underhood fuses and the underdash fuses are good. The battery light isn't on. The car barely runs. Throttle input kills the engine if it does start.

Former User

You probably have two separate problems, one causing the ELD code and the other causing the poor engine running.

Regarding the ELD code, it would probably be worthwhile to carefully inspect the wire harness near the intake manifold bracket. This is done most easily from below the car in the area near the oil filter.

For the poor running engine, have you checked whether the timing belt may have slipped a tooth?

Hybrid-Fusion

I have the harness pulled out and I've been inspecting the area around the intake manifold bracket.



I didn't see anything. Occasionally the car will rev up fine, but it doesn't last long.

Thanks for the quick responses.

Former User

Is the fuel pump sometimes not priming when you turn the key to ON(II)? Start by measuring the fuel pressure and checking whether you have bright white-bluish spark at all four plugs. The mechanical timing is also something that you should check, as I mentioned above.
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I truly believe the ELD problem is separate and caused by a damaged ELD wire in the area shown in your diagram.

Hybrid-Fusion

The fuel pump does prime. You can hear it when the key is turned to the on position. The rail on this car doesn't have a pressure port. The car smells rich when it runs as well.

Hybrid-Fusion

OK. I have a few videos. Picture quality isn't the greatest because of photobucket. But the sound is more important anyway.

The first is trying to give the Civic any kind of throttle input. As soon as I blip the throttle the engine dies.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ottleInput.flv

Next I get into the car and I start it and it runs like it has a two step or something then magically revs throughout the rpm range! Listen to this. Also, the code P1298 will not clear.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...vicTwoStep.flv

After this video I drove it up and down my road. The car was absolutely fine. I drove it up to 70 mph. When I got back I sat in the driveway and talked to my Dad for about 30 seconds and it died and wouldn't start again.

Hybrid-Fusion

Bump

Hybrid-Fusion

I guess my brother had the car towed to a shop yesterday. They told him it was the MAP sensor. However, what I assume happened is that they ran a scan tool on it and picked up P1298 in some sort of global OBD-II mode (which will just read generic codes/not OEM specific) and said "Manufacturer Air Fuel Metering Control" and I assume they thought it was the MAP because of this codes description. So while my brother is getting screwed at the mechanic, anyone else have any ideas?

Former User

The poor running symptoms are consistent with a MAP sensor malfunction. In addition, in some cases, a bad MAP sensor will not throw a code. Again, the ELD code likely represents a separate wiring issue.

Hybrid-Fusion

I guess that is a possibility.

oocivicsi

i have a 00 civic si that has recently seemed to go to hell on me. it through this code a few times b4 along with a sort of juttering motion and a high idle (around 1500rpms) i cleared the code a few times and it went back to running fine. well the other day it comepletely died on me at a stop light. its a great thing to be the guy pushing his broke down car out of the road in the middle of a busy intersection haha. so after getting the code checked they pretty much told me nothing because i got the map sensor reading. i have a slightly different issue though. my car will run with a new battery or with jumper cabels attached to it. once the battery is dissconected it will die. so i figured it was an alternator so i had it tested and its fine. also my battery is fine. so i'm at a horrible dead end. i now this thread is old but i'm hoping somebody out there can give me a clue as to whats wrong. i need my car back asap because my school is 15 miles out of town.

godluvstegs

im having this same problem now.. almost identical.. does anyone have an update on how to troubleshoot this or fix it?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Did anybody unplug the MAP and TPS for any reason? And get the plugs switched around?

Either that or try throwing a replacement MAP on there. They're like $5 used. Try a junkyard. I'm sure they have thousands of them.

You can also check the MAP voltage with a volt meter. You'll have to look at a repair manual to get voltage specs and wire colors to test.

godluvstegs

bump

kimokalihi

Same problem here. Code for ELD P1298 and P0141 O2 heater Circuit bank 1, sensor 2 and P0135 02 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank 1, Sensor 2 and there was a code for the VSS which I've replaced with a used one that the seller said was working and that didn't fix the speedo being stuck at 20mph. I figured it was the wiring problem in the service bulletin about rubbing on the intake but I looked at it and can't see anything wrong and since it's for 96-99 civics and this is a 2000 I figured they fixed that problem. So after that I replaced the cluster with a 2000 Si cluster and now instead of being stuck on 20mph all the time it's stuck at 0mph. I only drove it 1 mile after clearing the codes and installing the new cluster so the VSS code isn't back yet but the O2 codes and the ELD are back.

The ELD code is a new one though. The other day after replacing the clutch the car died 15 miles down the freeway and the battery was only at 10.6v. I automatically assumed the alternator was dead because I didn't disconnect it while doing the clutch job and it obviously wasn't charging the battery. Took the alternator out and to autozone where they tested it and it passed the test so I put it back in. Checked the codes and that's when the ELD code showed up. Actually I'm sure it was in there from when it broke down.

I'm not sure exactly what the Electrical Load Detection thing does but I'm guessing it's to protect the ECU or other components from a high current spike or something.

What the hell do I do now? A new VSS is like $130 and I don't really think it's bad and besides, what is keeping the alternator from charging my battery? Should I order a new ELD?

Former User

kimokalihi

I checked fuse 15 when I first had the problem and it was fine. I also removed the bracket and checked the harness and that was fine too (It's got a plastic sleeve on the harness that protects it from rubbing on the bracket which I think was added in 2000 because that service bulletin said it's only for 96-99 and it was published may of 2000 so this car had been out for 9 months by then).

Today I double checked the fuse and now it's blown and I went back under the car and double checked the harness and it's still good so I replaced the fuse and now the alternator went from 11.6v to 14.2v and the speedo works now and I cleared all the codes and the only one that came back was the O2 sensor and oddly enough before it was both sensors and now only the first O2 sensor is throwing a code.

Very strange.

Former User

The next step is to check the two heater element wires for the primary O2 sensor to see whether one of the wires is shorting out.

Bee Cool

You have P1298, P0141, and P0135 altogether showing up... these 3 Stogies are driving me crazy as hell... I bought a new ELD from Ebay (almost 40$) and nothing, NADA! Same problem showing up after replacing the old one. Now I am solution-hunting as of this writing.