diyer

I need a stop leak for a possible slight head gasket leak. I know it is better to replace the gasket, but I do not have the time, the money, or the place to do this work right now, so, I have no choice. If there is a leak, it is very mild and just at the beginning of the problem. Like I said, unfortunately I cannot do this job at this time. I inherited the car in this condition and it has not been driven since. It was in a mild front end collision (mostly cosmetic damage). It is possible that the vehicle overheated right after the collision. We did a bunch of tests, none of which revealed a problem, except a hydrocarbon exhaust sniffer, I suppose there were too many ppm's in the coolant in the radiator, but the vehicle is not smoking or overheating, and many people say those exhaust sniffers are not reliable for testing the cooling system. I cannot say if it is burning coolant because I am not driving the vehicle yet. I was doing the body work first and just got it running since the body work was finished. So, why do I suspect a gasket leak? Well, the first time I ran the engine after the collision, there was "white-smoke" for about 30 seconds to a minute, but then it disappeared, and it was also the wintertime, when all vehicles have condensation, and so that makes it harder to determine for sure. It is not smoking now. At any rate, if it is a slight problem, my thinking is to use as mild a sealer as possible. Bar's has several of them. The mildest or best choice I can figure is the Liquid Aluminum. It appears to be fine particles of aluminum suspended in methanol alcohol. Both of the Radiator Stop Leaks seem to have too much stuff in them, and I'm thinking of avoiding the sodium silicates for now, I think they are for more severe leaks. I called Bar's but forget it. The only thing they will say is, It is up to you, all our products should work fine. I looked up the MSDS data hoping to shed some light on what is in these products. But I was hoping someone here has much more knowledge about these sealers then I do.

Radiator Stop Leak -- MSDS: Deionized Water, Organic Material, Soda Ash, Ethylene Glycol, Potassium Hydroxide, 1-(3-chloroallyl)-3,5,7-Triaza-1-Azoniaadamantane, Chloride Hexamethylenetetramine, 1,3-Dichloropropene Dichloromethane Sodium Bicarbonate

Radiator Heavy Duty Stop Leak -- MSDS: Mineral Oil, Triethanolamine, Sulfonic acid, Sodium salts, Tall oil fatty acids, Hexylene glycol, Noionic surfactant, Turmeric; Soda Ash, Ginger Rhizomes, Almond Shell, Carbowax (Polyethylene Glycol Powder)

Golden Powder Radiator Stop Leak: MSDS: Turmeric; Soda Ash, Almond Nut Shell, Ginger Rhizomes.

Liquid Aluminum Radiator Stop Leak -- MSDS: Methanol Alcohol.

Copper Stop leak -- MSDS: Copper Dust, Mist, and Flake, Sodium Silicate. Cooling system must first be flushed

Head Gasket Repair -- MSDS: Sodium Silicate. Cooling system must first be flushed.


Modified by diyer at 3:45 PM 8/13/2008

radiuslight

I dont mean to be negative or anything like that!
I recommend to get work done on your car........stop leak is a product of the devil!

diyer

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name!'" Since when did Mick Jagger go in the automotive supplies business. !? !? !?

Hey, if you dont intend to be negative THEN DONT !!! because you were. Why did you bother to waste your time replying if you had nothing positive to say. If those stop leaks were that bad, those mfrs would have long been out of business. You dont know what your talking about, dude or dudette, whichever one you are.

Oh and I already know it is better to replace the gasket, but there is a whole lotta info you dont have about this car and I aint about to have to explain all that, all for nothing - just to get an answer like yours. What a waste of time.


Modified by diyer at 2:11 PM 8/15/2008

TouringAccord

WOW!!

calm down.... I don't see what they posted as being negative or offensive.

Just move on

YeuEmMaiMai

stop leak is only really effective for stopping rad leaks.........and that will last a very short time.......

GhostAccord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If those stop leaks were that bad, those mfrs would have long been out of business. You dont know what your talking about, dude or dudette, whichever one you are.

Oh and I already know it is better to replace the gasket, but there is a whole lotta info you dont have about this car and I aint about to have to explain all that, all for nothing - just to get an answer like yours. What a waste of time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This thread is a waste of time!!!!!

The only reason this stuff is still on the market is because of people like you. These stop leak products are crap and do nothing but clog and restrict the proper flow of coolant. I have seen this crap do more damage than good. If you think it's going to stop a leaking HG what do you think it's doing to all the small ports in your rad?

You stated that you don't want to get into the info on this car. If the car isn't worth fixing properly why not go buy another one.

I'm not sorry for wasting your time or sounding like an a$$. You wan to use the stuff go ahead, Non are any better than the other in my opinion.

diyer

[QUOTE] GhostAccord This thread is a waste of time.

A: Boy my response sure pulled in the lunatics didn't it !? The only respectful answer I got was from YeuEmMaiMai. Seems he looks at things more objectively., THAT is the specific kind of information I need.

[QUOTE] The only reason this stuff is still on the market is because of people like you.

A: Thank god, becasue I successfully stipped a Leaky head on a 91 high mileage Volvo, and th car has not sufferd the worse for it, and neapplication has lasted for five [5] years now.

[QUOTE] I have seen this crap do more damage than good.

A: I really don't believe you. I think it can do harm, but that is not the same thing as saying it will do harm. YOU had an opportunity to reply positively and explain things in a logical reasonable manner and choose to only answer after I told the other guy he had nothing positive to say. Perhaps it was really you and you have more than one screen name? [I think that goes on quite a bit on the Net]. It never fails, you cant get any grease until you get squeeky. Me thinks you need to not waste your time replying, In fact why did you? Doesn't make any sense that you wasted your time on a subject you think is not worth the time. Who appointed you Honda King huh? Are you with the Honda FBI? So, if you dont like the topic but others are willing to answer, let it alone ... let it alone!

[QUOTE] You stated that you don't want to get into the info on this car. If the car isn't worth fixing properly why not go buy another one.

A: I never said I didn't prefer to fix it properly. I do prefer that and stated that. But I also said I do not have the time, money, or place to do the job NOW


Modified by diyer at 5:24 PM 8/16/2008

diyer

I appreciate your better attitude and do not look at what YOUR saying as negative. But on this one I disagree. I mean perhaps thoe stop leaks are usually not effective, but I actually use one, 5 years ago, on a Volvo external head leak, and today that acr is still going strong with no leak, and the car is none the worse for it. I used it one time and it worked. And that leak was visible and running thru quite a bit of coolant. So I know it was effective. Btw, it was not Bar's Leaks.

Are you saying that Bar's Leaks ony works on radiators and not heads, meaning that another brand is better for head gasket leaks? ... Like the new K&W Block Sealer that is supposed to be a great product?

GhostAccord

It is very obvious that you are going to disagree with anyone that objects to the use of this CRAP. Weather or not they are negatively flaming you or being polite about it. You have already made up your mind so just use the stuff and stop wasting peoples time looking for affirmation on your cheap fix.


and good luck

mavvrik

You believe you have a head gasket leak because you saw some white smoke come out of your exhaust--for roughly 30 seconds--in the winter--during a cold start--after the motor had not ran in god knows how long? Is this correct?

My personal diagnosis--"A typical winter cold start". If the motor hasn't been running for a long time, especially during the winter, chances are your going to get some "white-ish smoke"

It's very well possible that your head gasket could be going out, i'm not going to doubt that, but trying to diagnose something like that with all those enviornmental factors working aginst you-- sorry

Lastly, I'm with everyone else on this thread:
1) Sealers are super shitty--don't use them. They do more harm than good.
2) Don't be an *** and blow off everybody when they are trying to help you.

alexsaccord

Those "sealers" will plug up every other small orifices in the engine before it solves any head gasket leak. They are snake oil treatments. And if you don't want to listen to advice........Don't ask for it!!

K-Town Pat

Hi,
This question caught my interest and I had to join the forum to answer. I would like to let everyone know that I have learned alot about my new 94 Accord Ex Coupe on here and I appreciate that very much.

That said I have to respectfully disagree with everyone who posted against using Bars Leak. It is a fantastic product that can really help someone when they need it most. I've used it twice to really save my bacon! In 1993 I lived in San Mateo California. My Pontiac 1989 Sunbird that I purchased new began pouring antifreeze out of the the head gasket joint on the front of the engine. One bottle of bars leak later and the engine was bone dry. The car had 50,000 miles on it and I was able to drive it for another year and 10,000 more miles until I had the opportunity to change the gasket. When I did pull it apart it was such a pain that I wished I had just left it alone. The bars Leak remained sealed until the day I pulled the head off.

Last winter my sons car (v6 Camaro) developed a coolant leak in at a very difficult to reach fitting on the intake. One bottle of Bars Leak later and the problem was solved. We saved hundreds of dollars on a job we would not have been able to do because of the winter cold.

For all of the experts who will disagree with me, be aware I am a professional mechanic myself, air planes and turbines. Keep spending all your money and time on major repairs while the savvy driver continues motoring past.

radiuslight

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K-Town Pat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hi,
This question caught my interest and I had to join the forum to answer. I would like to let everyone know that I have learned alot about my new 94 Accord Ex Coupe on here and I appreciate that very much.

That said I have to respectfully disagree with everyone who posted against using Bars Leak. It is a fantastic product that can really help someone when they need it most. I've used it twice to really save my bacon! In 1993 I lived in San Mateo California. My Pontiac 1989 Sunbird that I purchased new began pouring antifreeze out of the the head gasket joint on the front of the engine. One bottle of bars leak later and the engine was bone dry. The car had 50,000 miles on it and I was able to drive it for another year and 10,000 more miles until I had the opportunity to change the gasket. When I did pull it apart it was such a pain that I wished I had just left it alone. The bars Leak remained sealed until the day I pulled the head off.

Last winter my sons car (v6 Camaro) developed a coolant leak in at a very difficult to reach fitting on the intake. One bottle of Bars Leak later and the problem was solved. We saved hundreds of dollars on a job we would not have been able to do because of the winter cold.

For all of the experts who will disagree with me, be aware I am a professional mechanic myself, air planes and turbines. Keep spending all your money and time on major repairs while the savvy driver continues motoring past.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Car had 50000 miles and went another 10000 when you used the product!

I'd rather have it go another 200000 after I replace the head gasket

I'm gonna disagree with you k-town its a bad product! not because it doesnt work.......but because it causes more damage then it helps!Read and Understand the post !

Why would you want to ruin your engine like that man!! Well if you dont care about the frekin car then do it........but if your like me I LOVE MY BUCKET WITH WHEEL ......I would not pour that freak juice in there!!!!

diyer

[QUOTE=radiuslight]

Reply: ... You see what I mean Radius? I have read countless stories like this, and many of them never did anything else to their engine after the Bar's Leak was used and then drove those vehicles for many many more miles then 10,000.

[QUOTE=radiuslight] I'm gonna disagree with you k-town its a bad product! not because it doesn't work.......but because it causes more damage then it helps!

Reply: When I posted this question it was because I am in the middle on this thing. I have read the accolades by many and yet I think there is still a point to be made logically, at the least, about the clogging up. Actually, that is the only issue I have read against the product. Now I'm no mechanic and I'm no chemist, and I know there are far more knowledgeable people than I am, regardless of what I have read in support of or against using these products. AND that is what I would like to know about - how can this be? Bar's has told me that the product seeks out air and then changes chemically when it finds the leak, but the rest of it stays inert, and can later be flushed out. I can also tell you that there are some stop leaks that are coolant incompatible, and the system must be flushed first. Bar's also said that the product also seeks out heat and air combos, and will seal a leak. I have also been told by other people that, although they are not fans of using a sealer, that the best one is K&W Block Sealer by CRC. It is a Sodium Silicate sealer. Btw, the US Military carries these sealers on their high priority vehicles, for just these type of problems.

But in that case, I would say they are not concerned about the product working long term, but only to keep them moving. But, in the end isn't that what it is all about, keeping the vehicle going? At any rate, if you have any data, or pics that you can post to support your claim that these sealers damage engines, then I really would like to see that. I have read the claims against using it, but not once have I ever seen any pics showing me the proof.

But I can tell you this, I put one bottle of a product called Permium Stop Leak, from a company called Eagle Products, into my Mom's 91 Volvo 740, that had a visible external leak on # 4 cylinder, and that was five years ago, and the car has been none the worse for it, and she has gone another 40k at least since then. I'm amazed that I only needed the one bottle in all this time.

Ok, here is what I am being told about that. When the leak is external, it is easier to seal it up with a stop leak as the pressure is pushing outward. Ok, makes sense to me. But with an internal leak it is a different matter. Ok, but your not disputing if they work, just that you say they damage engines. You know, I really, really, would love to see pics of that clogging. Seriously, I really would. You show me that and I will not use a sealer. Btw, make sure it was not form some idiot that used a coolant incompatible sealer with coolant in his engine. Those do cause clogging. Even Bar's will tell you that.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your pics, or anyone's pics, heck anyone out their on the net with clogging-pics-proof. Till then, I just don't know what the heck Im gonna do.

Btw, I have absolutely no argument against replacing a head gasket, if you have the time, money, and place to do the work. If my Honda was leaking really bad and the gasket problem was obvious, I would have it replaced, no question. But it is these borderline slight leaks that makes a stop leak so tempting, because they work darn fast, and think of the time and money saved. BUT do they do other damage is the question. You know, if that is so important, I'm starting to wonder why I haven't seen any pics about that at all. I really think you narrowed this issue down for me. I have to thank you for that.

diyer

I have not even come close to making up my mind. You need to keep in mind that there are many people that are claiming that sealers work and that there is no damage - period!

I'm really not one of thse people. I'm in between the issue on this one. I just do not know for usre. I think there may be a whole lot more to these issue than maybe any one of us suspects.

But I do appreciate all the dialog. Perhaps it will lead to some real understanding.


Modified by diyer at 1:55 PM 8/18/2008

diyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mavvrik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You believe you have a head gasket leak because you saw some white smoke come out of your exhaust--for roughly 30 seconds--in the winter--during a cold start--after the motor had not ran in god knows how long? Is this correct?

My personal diagnosis--"A typical winter cold start". If the motor hasn't been running for a long time, especially during the winter, chances are your going to get some "white-ish smoke"

It's very well possible that your head gasket could be going out, i'm not going to doubt that, but trying to diagnose something like that with all those enviornmental factors working aginst you-- sorry

... 2) Don't be an *** and blow off everybody when they are trying to help you.</TD></TR></TABLE>


A: That is a good diagnosis, and one that I have been tossing around too. I thinkI need to get the vehicle on the road and see if it use any coolant. Not much else to say.

Sorry, dont mean to. Please keep in mind about all those accolades from users of sealers that swear by them. I think that there really is hard core proof out there and much more about this issue than I have found so far, but until then the dichotomy of thought on htis subject is just amazing.


Modified by diyer at 3:55 PM 8/18/2008

diyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alexsaccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those "sealers" will plug up every other small orifices in the engine before it solves any head gasket leak. They are snake oil treatments. And if you don't want to listen to advice........Don't ask for it!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now, you see, that is what I call a morons response. Why don't you go jump off a cliff, or go to Iraq and kill people, because someone told you there are bad guys there out to get you if you don't.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, it is the attitude stuff that I dislike, and your's reeks of it. Learn to be a thinker not a follower.

street_accord94

You seem to be sold on using the product, so why not stop arguing over the internet and go pour in the bar's leaks?

radiuslight

Well I'm telling you its a bad product because of my own experience.......yes that's right I used it and it f-ed up my 94 ranger.......right now its sitting in my drive way.......I can take a picture of it and you can tell its been sitting there!

other then that I cant offer anymore detail....I'm not about to take it apart to find clogs and $#!t that's to complicated!
Learn from my mistake man please!......lol

If everyones advise isn't enough proof........then go for it........just get it over with!
Use the damn product and learn from the outcome!!!!

diyer

QUOTE=radiuslight] Well I'm telling you its a bad product because of my own experience.......yes that's right I used it and it f-ed up my 94 ranger.......right now its sitting in my drive way.......I can take a picture of it and you can tell its been sitting there!

No, I meant pics (from any credible source) showing damage to the radiator, water pump, any engine ports, hoses, etc. That's all I ask. Walk the walk don't just talk the talk, which quite frankly is what I am hearing from proponents on both sides of this issue. Make no mistake I am sold for or against using a sealer at this point. I have not seen or heard form any Bar's reps that can show me the same proof, via pics, that the sealers do not harm radiators or engines. But I sure wish that we could start to see pics from people, one way or the other, so that if these sealers are doing the damage that is claimed we can start to put those mfrs out of business, or stop badmouthing them

Sorry, but so far, it seems that not only do they work, but as for the numbers of people using those products, I don't hear of any lawsuits, and I think that I would if these products were so bad. All I have only heard is just opinions from people without any proof.

I ask you this, Radiuslight, I assume you used a cooling system sealer? ... Did you flush and clean the system thoroughly before using the product? ... Did you follow the instructions exactly? ... What exact product [brand name and product name] did you use that you claim damaged your truck? ... How do you know it was the product that did the truck in? Exactly what is the truck doing or not doing that is keeping it in your driveway? ... Did a qualified shop do the diagnosis? You see, it is quite a leap to assume it was the sealer that did it in. I'm not saying it wasn't the sealer. But you know there are people that swear by Chevys and other people who wouldn't give you a dime for them, BUT that does not prove anything. Btw, I'm not asking for the kind of proof a courtroom judge would require. But, people just giving me their opinions, that's worthless, on this subject. I like this board, and the info is good for doing specific repairs, BUT this subject certainly isn't one of them, and has gotten nowhere. I don't really know anything more than before I asked the question - which is nothing but talk. SHOW ME GOOD RESULTS OR SHOW ME BAD ONES, BUT DO SHOW ME PROOF, not hyped up talk,just because you were taught something one way and have accepted it with investigating it. I'm doing and investigation, and quite frankly I don't believe what anyone is saying, and i am including Bar's Leaks co., as well as, any other companies that make these stop leaks.

I have seen a few common denominators among the various Internet boards on the subject of Stop Leaks.

# 1. The products work but may or may not do damage, depending numerous factors.

# 2. It is the car enthusiasts of all kinds, that are the most against using stop leaks. The car enthusiasts will go to the point of obsessively throwing money at a car for the slightest thing.

# 3. As for technicians and mechanics, they are split 50/50 on the subject. Some hate it and some love it. Just one example, as evidenced by that airplane turbine mechanic who responded to this thread.

# 4. The average car owner non mechanic, consumer seems to be the ones who use these products the most.

# 5. Sodium Silicates seem to seal up a block leak the best, and ... see # 6

# 6. K&W block sealer is the best one for a head gasket leak, not Bar's Leaks.

# 7. Internal head gasket leaks are rarely sealed permanently, with any stop leak.

Want to blame someone for what happened to your truck, assuming of course it is as you say, then blame the US legal system for not having standards in place to keep false products off the shelves from consumers. Perhaps if we had higher standards in place for products, like the FDA has for drug claims, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yeah right, good luck trying to get rid of the so called American Dream, which is at the root of all evil, because it is based on legally being able to greedily acquire as mush as you want. The love of money is the root of all evil - its true, when a mechanic is focused on making money more than he is on taking care of your car, what do you think will happen sooner or later. I know, it sounds like I am now arguing for not using a stop leak.

Uh oh, it's not everyone, remember the airplane turbine mechanic who claimed that stop leaks are great. So, it's not everyone's advice is it?

You see, that is exactly what you are not seeing. Where along the way did you forget that there are many consumers touting their great faith in having used a stop leak successfully. I mean not only from answers at this board but from other boards too, and from doing research on the subject that is all over the Internet. So, as a result there are no hard core facts to go by, just a bunch of opinions by people and NOTHING MORE. Its become like a game of playing who do you believe?


Modified by diyer at 3:46 PM 8/18/2008

diyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by street_accord94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You seem to be sold on using the product, so why not stop arguing over the internet and go pour in the bar's leaks?</TD></TR></TABLE>


1. If I was sold on a stop leak, the best stop leak for a head gasket failure seems to be K&W, not Bar's Leaks.

2. I'm not sold on using any stop leak.

3. I'm not sold on NOT using any stop leak.

Brad_and_the_acc

Diyer, We realize that you are having a hard time on what to do and/or which product to choose. If you are looking for hard FACTS im guessing that you will not find pics or vids or any of the FACTS you are looking for. I dont think that someone has used "stop leaks" and said "Hey it worked lets take it apart and see how it worked and what else this product has done to my engine for good or worse."

I for 1 think you should try it since you have a gut feeling that it should work on a MINOR leak. So if you could try it out and tell us how it works and any problems you have run into. Maybe a DIY on "stop leaks" if you will. I am not being negative, I am just asuming that what you are looking for you will not find on here. People have given you both Positive and Negative opinions on the matter but that is not good enough, so just do it and tell us how it works.

radiuslight

oh man your kidding right!

dude nobody is going to take apart their engine or radiator to find damage from the product......its to complicated and for what just to show you.....I'm not getting paid for that!

Its simple I had a Radiator leak very small then it started to get bigger......I dont know what the hell I was thinking!
I used stop leak when I should of just replaced the radiator.......sure the leak stopped........but the truck overheated out of nowhere one day....about three days after I poured that stuff!

it seems like you dont want to fix ur ride.....so I suggest to JUNK it and get a new ride or pour that freak juice into it already!

cant they close this thread or something?

diyer

Radiuslight:

oh man your kidding right! dude nobody is going to take apart their engine or radiator to find damage from the product......its to complicated and for what just to show you.....I'm not getting paid for that!

diyer:

Well then, how does anyone know it is the stopleaks that are doing the clogging that they are claim they are doing, if they dont take things apart to see. It is merely speculation if they dont. That is hardly fair.


Radiuslight:

Its simple I had a Radiator leak very small then it started to get bigger......I dont know what the hell I was thinking! I used stop leak when I should of just replaced the radiator.......sure the leak stopped........but the truck overheated out of nowhere one day....about three days after I poured that stuff!

diyer:

Again, that is not anywhere near a good diagnosis or scientific evidence, let alone proof, it is mere conjecture, speculation and nothing more. Quite frankly, if it was the stop leak, it sounds to me that you used one of the stop leaks that were incompatible with coolant and you did not read the instructions, but that is just speculation on my part. See, not so fair is it? But it could have been several other things. I wonder if you were running dexcool in that truck?

As for closing the thread, I'm not forcing you to answer or say a word. Your making that decision yourself.

diyer

Brad_and_the_acc:

Diyer, We realize that you are having a hard time on what to do and/or which product to choose. If you are looking for hard FACTS im guessing that you will not find pics or vids or any of the FACTS you are looking for. I dont think that someone has used "stop leaks" and said "Hey it worked lets take it apart and see how it worked and what else this product has done to my engine for good or worse."


diyer:

Except, that is, for the manufacturers of these products, who should be very interested in publishing those pics in support of their product, knowing all the controversy that surrounds stop leaks. So, now that point is starting to become apparent: WHY haven't Stop Leak mfrs purchased some engines and published those pics .... something they would rather have us not know ..... mmmmm, BAR'S LEAKS COWARDS.


Brad_and_the_acc:

I for 1 think you should try it since you have a gut feeling that it should work on a MINOR leak.

diyer:

Ah, finally someone that is perceptive to see what the struggle is all about: "a very minor leak" -- Could it work and stop a world of problems until I can do the gasket job, and without any compound problems, even if much later than I prefer to?


Brad_and_the_acc:

So if you could try it out and tell us how it works and any problems you have run into. Maybe a DIY on "stop leaks" if you will. I am not being negative, I am just asuming that what you are looking for you will not find on here. People have given you both Positive and Negative opinions on the matter but that is not good enough, so just do it and tell us how it works.


diyer:

Perhaps I will try one. Still doing some other testing first. Its not that the answers are not good enough, but rather that they are nothing more than conjecture, speculation, albeit, even if they are correct.


This thread reminds me of the driveaxle debate. Some swear by the Asian aftermarket ones saying they are great, while others prefer the OEM Honda ones claiming the Asian Imports ones are crap and break, and still others say the best ones are the high end ones made for racing, and all the other ones are crap. Where is the proof? Too many varaibles to consider. Just no hard scientific evidence. So, it gets to be something that you are only guessing at.

And if you really look at the driveaxle issue closely, you'll realize that the OEM was originally Asian made, and by who, certainly not Honda themselves, they had those axles made for them, and then the issue was lets go with the Genuine Honda and not the crappy US aftermarket brands. But interestingly, now that Hondas are made in the US, suddenly, it would not be politically correct to expose the biggotry of this nonsense, and now that OEM is US made, the aftermarket crap is the Asian imports, huh, perhaps the very mfr that Honda originally used when they were sending us their Jap made vehicles. Its all BS if you ask me, nobody knows. Dont mistake what I am claiming - I'm not claiming anything, I'm just trying to find the truth - period! I'm at the mercy of all the lies as well as anyone else.


Modified by diyer at 5:55 PM 8/18/2008